Aidoneus wrote:
Of course, he tricked me! Still 12 - 4 = 8, plus 1 outside for 9 liberties. So White wins, yes?
Yes
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| Author: | macelee [ Fri May 23, 2014 1:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | capturing race problem |
This is the end position of a game I just newly added to Go4Go database (http://www.go4go.net/go/games/sgfview/42035). There is a capturing race at the bottom right corner having two groups with bulky five big eyes. I think this is a very good exercise for beginners. |
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| Author: | oca [ Fri May 23, 2014 2:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: capturing race problem |
Thanks for posting this example, moves like white 32 kills me so many time... I went to a situation like this just yesterday... which ended like this... |
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| Author: | Aidoneus [ Fri May 23, 2014 4:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: capturing race problem |
Doesn't White capture easily? Black's bulky five gives 8 - 4 = 4 liberties, plus 1 outside liberty, for a total of 5 liberties. Black's bulky five gives 8 - 2 = 6 liberties, plus 4 outside liberties (an extra as White must first capture a lone stone to avoid a self atari, yes?), for a total of 10 liberties. Of course, I am a beginner and may be missing something. |
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| Author: | HermanHiddema [ Fri May 23, 2014 4:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: capturing race problem |
Aidoneus wrote: Doesn't White capture easily? Black's bulky five gives 8 - 4 = 4 liberties, plus 1 outside liberty, for a total of 5 liberties. Black's bulky five gives 8 - 2 = 6 liberties, plus 4 outside liberties (an extra as White must first capture a lone stone to avoid a self atari, yes?), for a total of 10 liberties. Of course, I am a beginner and may be missing something. Black's shape is not a bulky five (yet). If white plays one stone inside and black captures, only then is it a bulky five (with all its liberties). Black's initial big eye is six spaces, which has 12 approach liberties. |
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| Author: | Aidoneus [ Fri May 23, 2014 5:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: capturing race problem |
HermanHiddema wrote: Aidoneus wrote: Doesn't White capture easily? Black's bulky five gives 8 - 4 = 4 liberties, plus 1 outside liberty, for a total of 5 liberties. Black's bulky five gives 8 - 2 = 6 liberties, plus 4 outside liberties (an extra as White must first capture a lone stone to avoid a self atari, yes?), for a total of 10 liberties. Of course, I am a beginner and may be missing something. Black's shape is not a bulky five (yet). If white plays one stone inside and black captures, only then is it a bulky five (with all its liberties). Black's initial big eye is six spaces, which has 12 approach liberties. Of course, he tricked me! Still 12 - 4 = 8, plus 1 outside for 9 liberties. So White wins, yes? Edit: I am not awake yet. I meant to type Black must capture the lone White stone before approaching. |
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| Author: | DrStraw [ Fri May 23, 2014 5:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: capturing race problem |
So how many ko threats does each side have? |
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| Author: | HermanHiddema [ Fri May 23, 2014 5:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: capturing race problem |
Aidoneus wrote: Of course, he tricked me! Still 12 - 4 = 8, plus 1 outside for 9 liberties. So White wins, yes? Yes
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| Author: | Aidoneus [ Fri May 23, 2014 5:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: capturing race problem |
DrStraw wrote: So how many ko threats does each side have? Now I know the problem is over my head! 
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| Author: | oca [ Fri May 23, 2014 5:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: capturing race problem |
I even don't understand where the 12 number comes from 
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| Author: | Aidoneus [ Fri May 23, 2014 6:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: capturing race problem |
oca wrote: I even don't understand where the 12 number comes from See http://senseis.xmp.net/?BigEyeLiberties |
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| Author: | Aidoneus [ Sat May 24, 2014 3:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: capturing race problem |
Aidoneus wrote: oca wrote: I even don't understand where the 12 number comes from See http://senseis.xmp.net/?BigEyeLiberties Another point worth mentioning that I read somewhere was that in races between two groups that each have a big eye, all of the shared liberties belong to the larger big eye. At least I find this sort of heuristic quite useful, and I wish I knew many more! |
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