Life In 19x19 :: Singapore barred by own NOC from competition in Asian Games.

:shock:

I simply cannot imagine what they are thinking. It reminds me of the nigerian president.

http://www.petitiononline.com/weiqi/petition.html

My only comment is, shocking that this sounds, every country is culturally different and sees fairness in different ways.

I don't know how this decision is viewed by the relevant parties within Singapore itself, and that seems more important than the petitioner and our Westernised view that the situation is terrible.

I would only sign it with a belief that the "ruling party" (for want of a better term) is making this decision in the minority, and that the players / athletes that they are supposed to represent are unhappy with the situation.

I don't understand this decision, but it seems to me that no attempt was made to understand it by anybody, or at least no details are given rather than 'they rejected it' and then people get outraged. I can think of quite a few good reasons such decision can be made... monetary, for example (we can only possibly finance and send X teams, and some just have to be left out), and so on. So, until further details are given, I do not see any reason not to assume that 'they had good reasons'... or not. In any case - too little info to start condemning.

The team’s offer to pay for all their expenses has also rejected by SNOC.

Bantari wrote:

At least some of the info you say is missing was present in the text Javaness linked to. So the monetary reason is not valid:

SNOC to allow Singapore Weiqi Team to participate in Asian Games 2010 wrote:

The team’s offer to pay for all their expenses has also rejected by SNOC.

Given these results, SNOC (Singapore National Olympics Council) has rejected the application by the Weiqi team to compete for the upcoming Asian Games based on their guidelines that a team must be among the top 6 in order to qualify for a place to represent Singapore.

http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/07/12/snoc-no-to-national-weiqi-team-competing-in-the-forthcoming-asian-game-2010/

Some comments from local people that we can see how they think.

It has reinforced my desire to stay out of this one, talk about politically hot.

topazg wrote:

It has reinforced my desire to stay out of this one, talk about politically hot.

You can say that again. Though I don't think that just because a situation is politically hot go players should turn a blind eye if their fellow players are being treated in this way. Get informed, develop an opinion, then act accordingly. Doing nothing is moving backward I say.

there is a strong push from the PAP to only enter into events they won't embarass themselves in unless they are using imported talent.

Author:	Javaness [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:23 am ]
Post subject:	Singapore barred by own NOC from competition in Asian Games.
http://www.petitiononline.com/weiqi/petition.html

Author:	Harleqin [ Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Singapore barred by own NOC from competition in Asian Ga
I simply cannot imagine what they are thinking. It reminds me of the nigerian president.

Author:	schultz [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Singapore barred by own NOC from competition in Asian Ga
Harleqin wrote: :shock: I simply cannot imagine what they are thinking. It reminds me of the nigerian president. So sad. "Let's ban our players from being able to participate, because that will make them better."

Author:	topazg [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Singapore barred by own NOC from competition in Asian Ga
My only comment is, shocking that this sounds, every country is culturally different and sees fairness in different ways. I don't know how this decision is viewed by the relevant parties within Singapore itself, and that seems more important than the petitioner and our Westernised view that the situation is terrible. I would only sign it with a belief that the "ruling party" (for want of a better term) is making this decision in the minority, and that the players / athletes that they are supposed to represent are unhappy with the situation.

Author:	Hushfield [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Singapore barred by own NOC from competition in Asian Ga
<cartman voice>lame!</cartman voice> Also, the petition to support these players doesn't seem to be going all that well, only 245 people signed so far. I'm a little hesitant to sign it myself because, as Topazg pointed out, there might be some background to this decision I am missing. With the info I currently have, though, it just seems like an unfair ruling and an incomprehensible mistake by the SNOC. So I'm signing it anyway.

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Author:	tapir [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Singapore barred by own NOC from competition in Asian Ga
Javaness wrote: http://www.petitiononline.com/weiqi/petition.html There is at least one contributor from singapore at L19, I would be very interested in his comments. Yee Fan?

Author:	Bantari [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Singapore barred by own NOC from competition in Asian Ga
topazg wrote: My only comment is, shocking that this sounds, every country is culturally different and sees fairness in different ways. I don't know how this decision is viewed by the relevant parties within Singapore itself, and that seems more important than the petitioner and our Westernised view that the situation is terrible. I would only sign it with a belief that the "ruling party" (for want of a better term) is making this decision in the minority, and that the players / athletes that they are supposed to represent are unhappy with the situation. I fully agree with the above. I don't understand this decision, but it seems to me that no attempt was made to understand it by anybody, or at least no details are given rather than 'they rejected it' and then people get outraged. I can think of quite a few good reasons such decision can be made... monetary, for example (we can only possibly finance and send X teams, and some just have to be left out), and so on. So, until further details are given, I do not see any reason not to assume that 'they had good reasons'... or not. In any case - too little info to start condemning.

Author:	Hushfield [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Singapore barred by own NOC from competition in Asian Ga
Bantari wrote: I don't understand this decision, but it seems to me that no attempt was made to understand it by anybody, or at least no details are given rather than 'they rejected it' and then people get outraged. I can think of quite a few good reasons such decision can be made... monetary, for example (we can only possibly finance and send X teams, and some just have to be left out), and so on. So, until further details are given, I do not see any reason not to assume that 'they had good reasons'... or not. In any case - too little info to start condemning. At least some of the info you say is missing was present in the text Javaness linked to. So the monetary reason is not valid: SNOC to allow Singapore Weiqi Team to participate in Asian Games 2010 wrote: The team’s offer to pay for all their expenses has also rejected by SNOC.

Author:	Bantari [ Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Singapore barred by own NOC from competition in Asian Ga
Hushfield wrote: Bantari wrote: I don't understand this decision, but it seems to me that no attempt was made to understand it by anybody, or at least no details are given rather than 'they rejected it' and then people get outraged. I can think of quite a few good reasons such decision can be made... monetary, for example (we can only possibly finance and send X teams, and some just have to be left out), and so on. So, until further details are given, I do not see any reason not to assume that 'they had good reasons'... or not. In any case - too little info to start condemning. At least some of the info you say is missing was present in the text Javaness linked to. So the monetary reason is not valid: SNOC to allow Singapore Weiqi Team to participate in Asian Games 2010 wrote: The team’s offer to pay for all their expenses has also rejected by SNOC. Monetary reason was just an example, and even if not valid, there might be other reasons. We have only heard one side of the story, as far as I can see. But then, I am really not invested in all that, so should probably have no opinion. Or at least keep quiet. Sorry.

Author:	kokomi [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 3:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Singapore barred by own NOC from competition in Asian Ga
Quote: Given these results, SNOC (Singapore National Olympics Council) has rejected the application by the Weiqi team to compete for the upcoming Asian Games based on their guidelines that a team must be among the top 6 in order to qualify for a place to represent Singapore. The reason of the rejection was said on the petition

Author:	kokomi [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Singapore barred by own NOC from competition in Asian Ga
http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/07/12 ... game-2010/ Some comments from local people that we can see how they think.

Author:	Hushfield [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Singapore barred by own NOC from competition in Asian Ga
kokomi wrote: http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/07/12/snoc-no-to-national-weiqi-team-competing-in-the-forthcoming-asian-game-2010/ Some comments from local people that we can see how they think. There are some very, very disturbing comments on that list. Seems like competitive go has a long way to go before it will be accepted by some of these people as an actual endeavor worth pursuing. Regarding the denial by the SNOC, there seems to be a political issue involved. A lot of the comments mention the government's preference for importing foreign talent in other competitive disciplines besides go. Apparently, some of the people posting there feel like an all-Singapore team would disprove the government's policy of looking for talent elsewhere. That is a pretty serious accusation, but governing bodies are made up of people after all, so I would not be surprised if this decision is an instance of stubbornly denying one's policies are not valid (in a particular area).

Author:	topazg [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Singapore barred by own NOC from competition in Asian Ga
kokomi wrote: http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/07/12/snoc-no-to-national-weiqi-team-competing-in-the-forthcoming-asian-game-2010/ Some comments from local people that we can see how they think. Thanks for posting this, very interesting. It has reinforced my desire to stay out of this one, talk about politically hot.

Author:	Hushfield [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 5:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Singapore barred by own NOC from competition in Asian Ga
topazg wrote: It has reinforced my desire to stay out of this one, talk about politically hot. You can say that again. Though I don't think that just because a situation is politically hot go players should turn a blind eye if their fellow players are being treated in this way. Get informed, develop an opinion, then act accordingly. Doing nothing is moving backward I say.

Author:	unkx80 [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Singapore barred by own NOC from competition in Asian Ga
Among the comments is an response from the secretary general of SNOC. I read it with lots of incredibility. Of course, we don't have much of a track record in the past year or so. There aren't that many regional and international events in amateur go, at most a few every year, and these are mostly individual events. Therefore, most of the participants would not have the required track record. Kind of a chicken-and-egg problem, since go is not really an established sport here and possibly around the region. Anyway, the rejection is quite a big bummer when I thought go is at its best here. It is only in the recent years that we have got a lot of very passionate young players, and a number of these young amateurs are getting really strong. I stress the word young, because a good proportion of the players will gradually drop out as they peruse higher studies and enter the workforce, since go alone cannot be our rice bowl. Harleqin summed up the sentiment that at least part of the population has very well. This applies not just to sports, but education and jobs as well. A number of locals get squeezed out by foreigners, no thanks to the policies. The present government seems to be pretty much in a world of its own, and not serving the interests of the masses very well.

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Author:	topazg [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Singapore barred by own NOC from competition in Asian Ga
Hushfield wrote: topazg wrote: It has reinforced my desire to stay out of this one, talk about politically hot. You can say that again. Though I don't think that just because a situation is politically hot go players should turn a blind eye if their fellow players are being treated in this way. Get informed, develop an opinion, then act accordingly. Doing nothing is moving backward I say. Maybe you misunderstand my reasoning for staying out of it. This is not only a hot topic, but one which I, as an outsider, clearly understand a very small fraction of the cultural picture behind it, and have little easy chance of being informed further from a non-partisan source. Therefore I cannot be sure that any involvement I would take would help rather than hinder, therefore I choose not to get involved.

Author:	NimbyDagda [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Singapore barred by own NOC from competition in Asian Ga
Speaking as a somewhat singaporean (married to one and used to live there and probably will do again in the future) The problem is many fold. Firstly the SNOC has a massive problem on their hands due to big bust up in the athletics community in Singapore which is still having repurcusions. In addition to this, there is a strong push from the PAP to only enter into events they won't embarass themselves in unless they are using imported talent. Its not so much that they care about the money, its the loss of face from entering a sport they had no chance of winning.

Author:	kokomi [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Singapore barred by own NOC from competition in Asian Ga
NimbyDagda wrote: there is a strong push from the PAP to only enter into events they won't embarass themselves in unless they are using imported talent. Interesting thought, I mean, I really don't understand their way of thinking. So the only solution is either they win CJK players, or they import CJK players so that even if the team lose, it does not lose their (but imported talents') 'face'? But I thought Singapore players did quite well in Go.

Author:	deja [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 9:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Singapore barred by own NOC from competition in Asian Ga
From what I can gather, those upset with the decision are charging the SNOC with political bias in making that decision. I haven't seen any evidence that SNOC's decision was political in any way. The letter from Chris Chan (SNOC Secretary General) to the Singapore Go Federation President basically states that the players didn't meet their criterion for inclusion. You can doubt that explanation on any number of grounds but to claim that the stated reasons are not the true reasons for rejecting the nomination is a little presumptuous. There needs to be more than just accusations, which is all that I've seen so far. Where's the evidence? If it's the criteria that are problematic, then efforts to change them for future decisions are really the only recourse at this stage. If there were improprieties in the decision making, someone needs to make that case. Not all decisions will be favorable. That's the nature of the deliberative process. Perhaps everyone who applies should be included? I also wish that the Singapore National WeiQi team had been given the chance to compete in the 2010 Asian Games. I think there's merit in the claim that the team did meet the SNOC's criterion, but the SNOC who makes those decisions did not.

Author:	Harleqin [ Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:04 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Singapore barred by own NOC from competition in Asian Ga
So, they want to use "foreign talent" so that they can blame them when they lose, unless they are sure to get a good place with "own talent", all for the fear of losing, which they equate with "losing face". Someone needs to convince them that not playing means they already have lost.