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Rates of Progress
http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1234		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  SinK [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:07 am ]
Post subject:  Rates of Progress
I was wondering how fast various people progressed and the factors that affected thier progress. I'm aware that this puts me in the dangerous territory of the rank obsessed but hey I'm curious. So chip in here with your progress graph and how much study, play and tsumego you did to get where you are today.

That's the general discussion and to start off I'll throw in a specific question. As a 22kyu KGS play with about 2-3weeks of Go under my belt what is a reasonable one year goal? Is SDK too ambitious or not ambitious enough. Since really what matters is study hours rather than absolute time I should add I can easily see myself maintaining 3-5 games/week, 50-100+ problems/week and reading any number of Go books (I love to read and in part I want a decent go goal so I can decide how many go books should go on my reading list) and I will be joining my universities Go club and so may get to see combat in UK go tournaments.
Author:  lorill [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rates of Progress
SinK wrote:
As a 22kyu KGS play with about 2-3weeks of Go under my belt what is a reasonable one year goal?

A good goal would be to still be playing. That's the main point, i think.
Author:  Mef [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rates of Progress
lorill wrote:
SinK wrote:
As a 22kyu KGS play with about 2-3weeks of Go under my belt what is a reasonable one year goal?

A good goal would be to still be playing. That's the main point, i think.


I'd set the bar a little higher -- A good goal would be to still enjoy playing (=
Author:  Li Kao [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rates of Progress
SDK should be doable with a bit of effort. I think I was 7k after a year. Playing about 2-3 games a day and not taking any lessons. Did some tsumego but didn't do much theory and didn't replay pro games or joseki studying.
Some people reached 1d in a year, but that's quite ambitious.
It depends a lot on how much time you want to put into go. And of course on how you spend that time too.
Author:  rubin427 [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rates of Progress
As I have mentioned elsewhere, I personally would not recommend setting goals related to rank. Instead try to set goals about number of serious games played (maybe 500-1,200 in one year?), or maybe number of games reviewed.

Just the same, sdk (on kgs) in one year is about what I managed. I was playing about 40 games a month. I felt that it was slow progress... upon reaching sdk, I promptly plateaued. try to avoid that one.
Author:  palapiku [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rates of Progress
First you progress fast, then slow.
Author:  Bantari [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rates of Progress
SinK wrote:
I was wondering how fast various people progressed and the factors that affected thier progress. I'm aware that this puts me in the dangerous territory of the rank obsessed but hey I'm curious. So chip in here with your progress graph and how much study, play and tsumego you did to get where you are today.

That's the general discussion and to start off I'll throw in a specific question. As a 22kyu KGS play with about 2-3weeks of Go under my belt what is a reasonable one year goal? Is SDK too ambitious or not ambitious enough. Since really what matters is study hours rather than absolute time I should add I can easily see myself maintaining 3-5 games/week, 50-100+ problems/week and reading any number of Go books (I love to read and in part I want a decent go goal so I can decide how many go books should go on my reading list) and I will be joining my universities Go club and so may get to see combat in UK go tournaments.


Well... I went to bed as 7k once and woke up as 3k.
Beat that. ;)
Author:  lorill [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rates of Progress
were you hibernating ?
Author:  SinK [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rates of Progress
Perhaps goal was to strong a word. I really meant whereabout could I expect to be in one year if I study and play consistently if not all that intensely. Plus I was hoping to know how a typical player progresses. I figure that going from 3d to 4d takes much longer than going 10k to 9k and was kind of looking for some idea of how much longer each level takes compared to the earlier ones.

How fast do people progress at the start? How slow later? And when do most players reach the point where they plateau because the effort to improve is more than they can commit to? What about you?

Bantari: Well... I went to bed as 7k once and woke up as 3k.
Beat that.

Nice going. What's the story behind that? My money is on you crossing paths with a Professional in the dream realm.
Author:  Li Kao [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rates of Progress
In the beginning I improved several ranks per month and since about 12k it takes me 1-2 Month per rank. And most people I know slowed down a lot in the 2k-4k region. So I expect that to happen soon.
And in the dans each additional rank is a lot bigger than the previous.
So if you want to set a one year goal set it somewhere in the SDKs. 1k should be pretty hard, 9k rather easy.
Author:  Bantari [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rates of Progress
lorill wrote:
were you hibernating ?


I assume your question is to me.
Answer: No, i was not hibernating.

Another example, I mentioned in my other post:
I left one club as a 4d, and arrived half hour later at another club as 9d.
Beat That!!!!
Lol.
Author:  Mef [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rates of Progress
Bantari wrote:
SinK wrote:
I was wondering how fast various people progressed and the factors that affected thier progress. I'm aware that this puts me in the dangerous territory of the rank obsessed but hey I'm curious. So chip in here with your progress graph and how much study, play and tsumego you did to get where you are today.

That's the general discussion and to start off I'll throw in a specific question. As a 22kyu KGS play with about 2-3weeks of Go under my belt what is a reasonable one year goal? Is SDK too ambitious or not ambitious enough. Since really what matters is study hours rather than absolute time I should add I can easily see myself maintaining 3-5 games/week, 50-100+ problems/week and reading any number of Go books (I love to read and in part I want a decent go goal so I can decide how many go books should go on my reading list) and I will be joining my universities Go club and so may get to see combat in UK go tournaments.


Well... I went to bed as 7k once and woke up as 3k.
Beat that. ;)



Alcohol impairs your go that much, eh? (=
Author:  Bantari [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rates of Progress
Mef wrote:
Bantari wrote:

Well... I went to bed as 7k once and woke up as 3k.
Beat that. ;)



Alcohol impairs your go that much, eh? (=


...and then I dropped back to 7k when I sobered up... ;)
Author:  Bartleby [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rates of Progress
SinK wrote:
I was wondering how fast various people progressed and the factors that affected thier progress. I'm aware that this puts me in the dangerous territory of the rank obsessed but hey I'm curious. So chip in here with your progress graph and how much study, play and tsumego you did to get where you are today.

That's the general discussion and to start off I'll throw in a specific question. As a 22kyu KGS play with about 2-3weeks of Go under my belt what is a reasonable one year goal? Is SDK too ambitious or not ambitious enough. Since really what matters is study hours rather than absolute time I should add I can easily see myself maintaining 3-5 games/week, 50-100+ problems/week and reading any number of Go books (I love to read and in part I want a decent go goal so I can decide how many go books should go on my reading list) and I will be joining my universities Go club and so may get to see combat in UK go tournaments.



I think a goal of SDK in one year is a reasonable one for many people, although a lot depends on the amount of time and effort you put into it. You might well achieve SDK in a year even if you don't want to work quite as hard as you describe. However, I think most people's rank progress slows way down at some point.

Using myself as an example, I went from beginner to 6 kyu on KGS in my first year, not working too hard but doing some tsumego and playing quite a bit. However, in the 9 months since that first year ended I have only gained roughly two stones, although my level of effort hasn't really changed. And from my games against stronger players, I am convinced that there is a really big difference between me and a 1 kyu on KGS. I would be happy (and a bit surprised) if I reached 1 kyu in the next year.

All that having been said, I agree with the posters who suggest you shouldn't worry about rank too much. Go is a game, most of us play games for fun, and as long as you are having fun you are winning, no matter what your rank.
Author:  xed_over [ Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rates of Progress
It took me at least 4 or 5 years to reach SDK. And even though that seems slow by many people's standards, several other friends who started at the same time never broke out of the 20s. I may never reach Dan level, even though I'd like to do so someday, I'm not really trying too hard to get there any time soon. I'm good enough to help introduce the game to beginners, and I enjoy doing that.
Author:  flOvermind [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rates of Progress
Bantari wrote:
lorill wrote:
were you hibernating ?


I assume your question is to me.
Answer: No, i was not hibernating.

Another example, I mentioned in my other post:
I left one club as a 4d, and arrived half hour later at another club as 9d.
Beat That!!!!
Lol.


Well... Let me try. I left one country as 4k, and arrived in another country as 3d. But I didn't manage that in half an hour ;)
Author:  CarlJung [ Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rates of Progress
SinK wrote:
As a 22kyu KGS play with about 2-3weeks of Go under my belt what is a reasonable one year goal? Is SDK too ambitious or not ambitious enough. Since really what matters is study hours rather than absolute time I should add I can easily see myself maintaining 3-5 games/week, 50-100+ problems/week and reading any number of Go books (I love to read and in part I want a decent go goal so I can decide how many go books should go on my reading list) and I will be joining my universities Go club and so may get to see combat in UK go tournaments.


What will you do if you don't meet your goal? What will you do if you realize that you set a too low goal? Stop the rank obsession and get started with the learning obsession.

What you wrote there with 50-100 problems/week is fantastic. Playing stronger players at the uni is great too. Cram in some quick online games as well in order to get the volume up a little. 3-5 games a week sounds like they are slow ones when I compare with your other plans. Gaining experience with fast games should not be underestimated.
Author:  DudeG [ Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rates of Progress
I think setting a rank goal is fine. Everything else should come naturally if you're dedicated to making that goal. Just don't let that goal become an obsession, or when you don't advance as fast as you'd like, or when you drop a rank, it can be devastating.

SDK in a year should be pretty easy, just take advantage of all the resources that are available. Be sure to join the KGS Teaching Ladder (found in the Lessons category of the Rooms list). And most importantly, be willing to put in the work.
Author:  SolarBear [ Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rates of Progress
DudeG wrote:
I think setting a rank goal is fine. Everything else should come naturally if you're dedicated to making that goal. Just don't let that goal become an obsession, or when you don't advance as fast as you'd like, or when you drop a rank, it can be devastating.


I'd say setting a studying and playing goal is way better. Start with a plan ("I'm going to solve X tsumego per day/week and play Y games per day/week") and keep up with that plan as much as life allows you to.

The problem I see with having a rank goal - at least, that would be my case - is that if you fail to reach it, it could be quite demotivating ; if you do reach it in, say, 9 months instead of a full year, you'd slack off and lose your momentum.

Obviously, your mileage may vary. Using that technique, I went from 30k to 8k in a year ; the next year, I went from 8k to 6k. Any rank goal I may have set in that second year would have been a hard blow for me.
Author:  hyperpape [ Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rates of Progress
It's an utter crapshoot. Whatever your level is, you can improve a lot. Unless your goal is 5d, it's probably possible. Unless your goal is 18k, it's not guaranteed. It's hard not to think about the rank you'd like to be (Five years in, I still imagine that this year I'll finally break 2k kgs), but it's a distraction.

If you set a goal, it will be a distraction. Either it will tell you "I have done enough" when you could improve faster, or it will be an unrealistic goal that tells you that you've failed while you're still improving.

As far as things that calm my worries about improvement, I've always liked something Dieter (of senseis' library) wrote:

Quote:
To speak of myself, I never played server Go until one year ago. Hence, my rank progress has been rather linear. I became 12k after one year, and progressively 9k, 6k, 4k, 3k, 2k, 1k, 1d, 2d. The last five years I have been improving one grade a year. I would have thought for someone to be 9k after two years it would be rather impossible to become a dan player, if they don't change their way or amount of playing and learning. But to my surprise and relief, it isn't.
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