Life In 19x19
http://prod.lifein19x19.com/

Fear of losing...
http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=12383		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Katoana [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Fear of losing...
Hello all!

I'm new here so I'm gonna introduce myself: I'm 58 yo guy from near the North Pole (well, almost ;-) ). I have been playing Go for about 15 years. It has been somekind of On/Off playing, if you know what I mean. If you don't, let me explain it to you. When I start my On-period, I begin to study Go books and play through games of old Masters. I even start to memorize some games. But, when I start to play games in the Net, or against computer (CS2013), or against my friend, I'm so frustrated after a lost game, that I don't like to play anymore. (Don't understand me wrong; I don't lose all my games! I think I'm somewhere around 12-15 kyus.) Then comes the Off-period. No more Go for a long time!
I know this all sounds silly, but does anybody recognize the symptoms that I have? What can I do? :sad:
Author:  jeromie [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fear of losing...
There are lots of people with similar difficulties, but I think the exact remedy varies from one person to the next.

Do you currently review your own games? There are always things we can learn from our own play, and lost games present better opportunities than games we have won. If you recognize that every defeat is a lesson that allows you to get stronger, it may take away some of the sting of defeat.
Author:  Abyssinica [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 8:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fear of losing...
I play games occasionally because of that, but when I start playing, if I lose, I immediately can play another and I usually get 4-5 games in that day. if I win one then that's it.
Author:  Katoana [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fear of losing...
Abyssinica wrote:
I play games occasionally because of that, but when I start playing, if I lose, I immediately can play another and I usually get 4-5 games in that day. if I win one then that's it.


The bad feeling when losing a game is much stronger than the good feeling when you win! Why? :-?
Author:  daal [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fear of losing...
I think that many who have this feeling equate losing with being stupid. It's just not the case. People win or lose because of their go skills and go performance, and while that may reflect other aspects of a person (for example, I recently had the realization that precision is not really my thing, and that this probably accounts for a chunk of my losses), it does not mean that a person is dumb, bad, incompetent or any of the other epithets we paint on the mirror when we play poorly. If you are berating yourself when you lose, stop. You played poorly because you didn't know how to play better and you made one of the zillion possible game losing moves. So what? It's not a big deal, and you are no less of a person because of it.
Author:  Katoana [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fear of losing...
jeromie wrote:
There are lots of people with similar difficulties, but I think the exact remedy varies from one person to the next.

Do you currently review your own games? There are always things we can learn from our own play, and lost games present better opportunities than games we have won. If you recognize that every defeat is a lesson that allows you to get stronger, it may take away some of the sting of defeat.


I have played chess for about 40 years so I think I know the usefulness of good analyze.
I have analyzed my Go games with CS. I don't always agree with the result of its' thinking, but it's better than nothing. And I agree that the lost games are most valuable for your progress.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fear of losing...
jeromie wrote:
There are lots of people with similar difficulties, but I think the exact remedy varies from one person to the next.


Indeed, there are any number of remedies that might work for you. :)

Here is an idea that has not been mentioned. Play with the intention of losing. You don't have to blunder. You can aim at losing by, say, 5 - 10 points. Then if you lose, you succeed. :)

You don't have to do this for every game, OC. ;)
Author:  Katoana [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fear of losing...
daal wrote:
I think that many who have this feeling equate losing with being stupid. It's just not the case. People win or lose because of their go skills and go performance, and while that may reflect other aspects of a person (for example, I recently had the realization that precision is not really my thing, and that this probably accounts for a chunk of my losses), it does not mean that a person is dumb, bad, incompetent or any of the other epithets we paint on the mirror when we play poorly. If you are berating yourself when you lose, stop. You played poorly because you didn't know how to play better and you made one of the zillion possible game losing moves. So what? It's not a big deal, and you are no less of a person because of it.

Thanks daal! You are absolutely right! :bow: It is my Go skill that needs to be upgraded, not necessarily my personality! It should be fun to play and I'm taking it too seriously. But that is in my personality! That's the problem.
Author:  oren [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fear of losing...
Katoana wrote:
I have played chess for about 40 years so I think I know the usefulness of good analyze.
I have analyzed my Go games with CS. I don't always agree with the result of its' thinking, but it's better than nothing. And I agree that the lost games are most valuable for your progress.


Try something like KGS Teaching Ladder. A person will be able to explain much better than CS.
Author:  Abyssinica [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fear of losing...
Katoana wrote:
Abyssinica wrote:
I play games occasionally because of that, but when I start playing, if I lose, I immediately can play another and I usually get 4-5 games in that day. if I win one then that's it.


The bad feeling when losing a game is much stronger than the good feeling when you win! Why? :-?



I can't end on a loss or not even for a day, but if I win I don't want to tarnish my record.
Author:  Katoana [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fear of losing...
oren wrote:
Try something like KGS Teaching Ladder. A person will be able to explain much better than CS.

Thanks oren, I will do that. :tmbup:
Author:  Bill Spight [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fear of losing...
Katoana wrote:
I have played chess for about 40 years


Do you have the same aversion to losing at chess?
Author:  Katoana [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fear of losing...
Abyssinica wrote:
Katoana wrote:
Abyssinica wrote:
I play games occasionally because of that, but when I start playing, if I lose, I immediately can play another and I usually get 4-5 games in that day. if I win one then that's it.

The bad feeling when losing a game is much stronger than the good feeling when you win! Why? :-?

I can't end on a loss or not even for a day, but if I win I don't want to tarnish my record.

Last saturday I played two games (having 6 and 5 stones handicap) against my friend. I won both. I was so nervous that my hands were shaking. Against my friend!? Not for Meijin title! Ridiculous! :lol:
Author:  Cassandra [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fear of losing...
EVERY Go player who is matched against evenly skilled opponents, will lose 50 per cent of their games.


If you lose your games to a higher rate, here is a wisdom from ancient Japan:

"As the archer missed his target, he turned around and looked for the fault within himself."
Author:  Cassandra [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fear of losing...
Katoana wrote:
Last saturday I played two games (having 6 and 5 stones handicap) against my friend. I won both. I was so nervous that my hands were shaking.

You are not playing a game of Go AGAINST your current opponent, but WITH him.

Your opponent helps you to discover more knowledge about yourself.
Author:  Katoana [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fear of losing...
Bill Spight wrote:
Katoana wrote:
I have played chess for about 40 years


Do you have the same aversion to losing at chess?

Yes I do! When I was younger it didn't play so big role, actually it didn't bother me at all, but when I got older and wiser :lol: it has started to bother me a lot.
Author:  Katoana [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fear of losing...
Cassandra wrote:
Katoana wrote:
Last saturday I played two games (having 6 and 5 stones handicap) against my friend. I won both. I was so nervous that my hands were shaking.

You are not playing a game of Go AGAINST your current opponent, but WITH him.

Your opponent helps you to discover more knowledge about yourself.

Thanks Cassandra! And thanks to everyone! I'm so surprised that so many has replied to my msg.
Yes, you are right, I can now understand the AGAINST/WITH difference! :tmbup: It could be my friend that is causing the symptoms. :) He is a person that must have somekind of competition going on. I'm fascinated by the beauty of the game, but he is counting how many wins or loses I have made so that the handicap stones can be decided. :scratch:
Author:  Bill Spight [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fear of losing...
Katoana wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:
Katoana wrote:
I have played chess for about 40 years


Do you have the same aversion to losing at chess?

Yes I do! When I was younger it didn't play so big role, actually it didn't bother me at all, but when I got older and wiser :lol: it has started to bother me a lot.


A few comments.

First, the fact that your aversion also includes chess suggests that it is more general, perhaps even affecting other aspects of your life.

Second, the fact that it has changed over time indicates that the problem is not your personality, but something more ephemeral.

Third, countering phobias is something that psychotherapists are good at, and have been for decades. You might find brief therapy beneficial, especially if the problem is generalized.

Good luck! :)
Author:  Abyssinica [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Fear of losing...
Cassandra wrote:
Katoana wrote:
Last saturday I played two games (having 6 and 5 stones handicap) against my friend. I won both. I was so nervous that my hands were shaking.

You are not playing a game of Go AGAINST your current opponent, but WITH him.

Your opponent helps you to discover more knowledge about yourself.


I disagree - if your goal is to win then you are against him. if you don't care and only want to experiment tonlearn, it is with him.
Author:  EdLee [ Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:16 am ]
Post subject: 
Katoana wrote:
from near the North Pole (well, almost ;-) ).
Wow! Are you near the North Pole for research ? :)
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/