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How long does it have to be a "dan" player
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Author:  negapesuo [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  How long does it have to be a "dan" player
I have a new years resolution that I will be at least a 1dan player by this time next year (currently around 11-12k)

How feasible is this, and do you think it'll be too intensive of an effort? I obviously have other priorities as well… work, studies, family/friends and such.

I want to be 1d under the strictest criteria, so any feedback would be appreciated.

Update: Thanks everyone for your comment. It seems as if I may have (slightly) underestimated the hurdle. I hope it didn't come off as disrespectful. The reason I wanted to learn was many people in my family are avid Go players in Korea and they are all dan level players. I am planning a visit next year to visit them, especially my granddad, and wanted to impressive them.

The way I improved my game so far was trying to lose as many games as possible in a short amount of time. I think the advice for me to slow down and actually look over my games is a valuable one.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How long does it have to be a "dan" player
negapesuo wrote:
I have a new years resolution that I will be at least a 1dan player by this time next year (currently around 11-12k)

How feasible is this, and do you think it'll be too intensive of an effort? I obviously have other priorities as well… work, studies, family/friends and such.

I want to be 1d under the strictest criteria, so any feedback would be appreciated.


How long have you been playing? Triple it for a reasonable time from now to reach shodan.

Just my guess. :)
Author:  zermelo [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How long does it have to be a "dan" player
If you are over 25 years old, I've never heard of anyone managing such feat. 2-3 years may be possible, but you need to put in at least 20 hours a week of playing and study. Many never get close to 1 dan though they study regularly for years.

If you are under 25, it may be possible in 1 year, but you need to make it something like a full time job.

That's my honest opinion, based on own experience and what I've read and seen. I'm thinking of European/KGS 1 dan. AGA, japanese, something else may be a little bit easier, I suppose depending on local standards.
Author:  negapesuo [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How long does it have to be a "dan" player
I've been playing for a little less than 3 weeks now... so triple is 12 weeks? Doesn't sound right...

I'm 25 years right now, although I definitely can't commit full time to learning Go.

Bill Spight wrote:
negapesuo wrote:
I have a new years resolution that I will be at least a 1dan player by this time next year (currently around 11-12k)

How feasible is this, and do you think it'll be too intensive of an effort? I obviously have other priorities as well… work, studies, family/friends and such.

I want to be 1d under the strictest criteria, so any feedback would be appreciated.


How long have you been playing? Triple it for a reasonable time from now to reach shodan.

Just my guess. :)
Author:  DrStraw [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How long does it have to be a "dan" player
It is not a matter of time. I would think that a mininum of 250 games played and seriously reviewed. For most people it is more likely to be 1000 games.
Author:  PeterHB [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How long does it have to be a "dan" player
25 is relatively young, and KGS 11k is good for the short time you've been playing.

I think 1 dan in a year is unreasonable.

If you want a reasonable but difficult goal, I suggest aiming at KGS 5k, and being lucky to overshoot and hit a solid stable 4k within the year. I think that is achievable.

I believe the challenge of managing your time is going to prevent better progress than that. Challenging goals are a good thing, setting yourself up to fail isn't.

Just my opinion.
Author:  negapesuo [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How long does it have to be a "dan" player
What does a serious review entail? Like a step by step analysis? I never is look back at the games that I've played, so this might be useful for me.

DrStraw wrote:
It is not a matter of time. I would think that a mininum of 250 games played and seriously reviewed. For most people it is more likely to be 1000 games.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How long does it have to be a "dan" player
negapesuo wrote:
I've been playing for a little less than 3 weeks now... so triple is 12 weeks? Doesn't sound right...

I'm 25 years right now, although I definitely can't commit full time to learning Go.


Well, you obviously have a talent for the game. :bow: :bow: :bow: Since you are advancing so rapidly, I would not worry about rank or ratings for at least a year or two. :D

Keep up the good work!
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How long does it have to be a "dan" player
PeterHB wrote:
25 is relatively young, and KGS 11k is good for the short time you've been playing.

I think 1 dan in a year is unreasonable.


I disagree. I reached 11-12 kyu in about 7 months, and 2 kyu in about 13 months. negapesuo is advancing much more rapidly than that. :D
Author:  PeterHB [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How long does it have to be a "dan" player
Bill Spight wrote:
I disagree. I reached 11-12 kyu in about 7 months, and 2 kyu in about 13 months. negapesuo is advancing much more rapidly than that. :D


Okay. Bill Spight has a lot more experience than myself. His opinion is worth more. I was worrying about trying to fit the rest of life in on top of progressing at Go. I'm someone who hasn't made it to 1 dan, and may never get there. I do feel the time management pressure is difficult.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How long does it have to be a "dan" player
PeterHB wrote:
I do feel the time management pressure is difficult.


Good point!

How many go players have failed to reach their potential because they did not prioritize go above job and family! :lol:
Author:  DrStraw [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How long does it have to be a "dan" player
negapesuo wrote:
What does a serious review entail? Like a step by step analysis? I never is look back at the games that I've played, so this might be useful for me.

DrStraw wrote:
It is not a matter of time. I would think that a mininum of 250 games played and seriously reviewed. For most people it is more likely to be 1000 games.


Go over the game in deatail, every move. Preferably in discussion with the opponent. Don't stop the review until you have looked at every move and found at least three mistakes for each side. Do it all from memory as much as you can without relying on the online sgf files. Anything less is a cursory review. And, of course, combine this with studying the literature.

Doing it in this depth you should be able to gain 1k for every 5-10 games at first, but it will take 25-50 games for each of the final few ranks.

EDIT: Ten such games a month, which seems like the maximum reasonable number to me, means it will take about 2 years.
Author:  dfan [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How long does it have to be a "dan" player
In my experience, people who are relative newcomers to a game and get really invested in becoming strong very fast are at increased risk for losing interest in the game just as quickly. So I would be on the lookout for that. Try not to get frustrated as your rate of improvement slows down.
Author:  RobertJasiek [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How long does it have to be a "dan" player
To become 1d in one year despite limited time per day, play, self-review, learn from your mistakes, read the right books, practise tactical reading, take the right teacher(s), attend tournaments, avoid wasting too much time on aspects irrelevant for improvement. Become real world EGF 9k within at most 3 months, 5k within another at most 3 months, 1k within another ca. 4 months. From 1k to 1d will bw harder than you wish. Replace your expectation about the amount to learn and acquire skill to 1d by identifying it with the amount to 5k, then multiplying by 20. To 5k requires relatively little but nevertheless can be hard without overcoming the notorious beginner mistakes.

Oh, you thought go was just another game? Forget it. Go is very much harder than every other game. Be prepared to completely refresh your understanding about go theory a few times during the process, unless your teacher tells you the right things immediately.

All topics are important but to 1d you cannot learn everything in all detail. Learn the basics of all topics and choose a rich topic studied deeply to get a representative overview on the depth of other topics, too.

Make reality checks. Are you progressing fast enough? Otherwise intensify your efforts according to your teacher's commands.

Did I say to avoid mistakes? Avoid mistakes! The big ones, the unnecessary ones, the easy small ones. You will learn about the exceptional small ones later. 14 points equals one rank so do avoid the big mistakes and those small ones you repeat many times per game. Start with defending your weakest important group. Always. Exceptions are for dans. Not doing so loses, say, 40 points per group. Not recognising and playing sentes loses 40 per game. Etc. As a 1k, it becomes: make one instead of two 10 point mistakes per game, make 20 instead of 100 1-point mistakes during the endgame.

Have you fallen in love with reading? No? Then why do you play go? Reading is that important. As are strategy, judgement, psychology and time management. Yes, everything is important. Start study in this moment, or you will fail. Read your next go book tonight.
Author:  sybob [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How long does it have to be a "dan" player
Don't get me wrong, but I do not think this goal is realistic.
Wish you good luck though.

Let us know in 1 year's time.
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How long does it have to be a "dan" player
negapesuo wrote:
I have a new years resolution that I will be at least a 1dan player by this time next year (currently around 11-12k)

How feasible is this, and do you think it'll be too intensive of an effort? I obviously have other priorities as well… work, studies, family/friends and such.


You can do it. I have faith in you.

Be warned: it won't be easy. It will take a lot of your time. It will be like having a mistress or a drug habit.

If you are really into such an obsessive change in your life, I recommend becoming a junkie for a year instead. It will probably cost less than becoming 1 dan, and lose fewer friends. If you are only 25 years old, you should be able to retain your health through it.

Either way, you'll have the perpetual haggard look, you'll forget to do things like laundry and eating, and you'll find yourself pining for meetings in dilapidated buildings in the bad part of town. You'll find yourself using obscure jargon, and accumulating some secondhand equipment that you always carry around with you.

At the end of one year, you will be able to find a rehab center for junkies. There are lots of them, and many are free. But if you choose go, there are no such establishments.

Ok, that is the warning.

If you still want to be 1 dan, I recommend posting a game every day - and I mean EVERY day - in the game analysis section. If you appear to be serious about it, here are lots of people here who will offer advice that will help you improve.


negapesuo wrote:
I want to be 1d under the strictest criteria, so any feedback would be appreciated.

If you have an AGA rating of 1D, I don't think that most people will quibble. A KGS rating of 1D might be considered more of a gold standard - as long as you can maintain it for a week or two.
Author:  LovelyLull [ Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How long does it have to be a "dan" player
I agree with Joaz that KGS 1D can be considered a gold standard. 1D on KGS is pretty much dan level anywhere, perhaps with the exception of some European countries. However an AGA 1D would be a bit off the mark from 1D in Korea or most European countries.
Author:  DrStraw [ Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How long does it have to be a "dan" player
Marcel Grünauer wrote:
The problem with standards is that there are so many. :)


The problem with this standard is that it is not standard.
Author:  Mike Novack [ Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How long does it have to be a "dan" player
The key thing to realize is that this is not a "one size fits all" question. The person asking the question is Not the average beginner, not if at aroundf 11 kyu just three weeks after learning the game.
Author:  hyperpape [ Sun Dec 11, 2016 1:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How long does it have to be a "dan" player
You probably won't make it, but it absolutely is possible.
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