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What is your method of getting better at Go?
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Author:  negapesuo [ Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:05 am ]
Post subject:  What is your method of getting better at Go?
I always thought it was interesting how everyone develops at a different pace. Some people seem to rise through the ranks every week, while there are others who stay at 5k for 25 years.

What do you personally do in order to get better at the game, and what method do you have the most confidence in?

I personally play against AI frequently. It's casual with no pressure, and I can try different things very often. It made progressing up to SDK very smooth but I think I've hit my limit. Another thing that I do is I try to learn one new thing everyday (one new joseki, one new common life-and-death, one new trick play, one new invasion point etc.). This takes me about 15 minutes a day to do, but I'm hoping it will pay off.

The thing is, I have tried many different things, such as solving life and death, or reading books, but many of these things don't do it for me. I can't progress through the ranks and I wonder why. It shouldn't be too difficult to progress further at my level.

Let me know what worked for you!
Author:  Bill Spight [ Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is your method of getting better at Go?
As you say, everybody is different. While I am a studious sort, I tend to rise to a challenge. So I think that playing against stronger players was the main factor in my progress. It is also very important to review your own games. Otherwise, study everything. :)
Author:  Bill Spight [ Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is your method of getting better at Go?
negapesuo wrote:
The thing is, I have tried many different things, such as solving life and death, or reading books, but many of these things don't do it for me. I can't progress through the ranks and I wonder why. It shouldn't be too difficult to progress further at my level.


It is highly unlikely that you have reached your level of incompetence. ;) But it is quite possible that you have developed some bad habits, that not only do you sometimes fail to consider the best play, sometimes you do consider the best play, but prefer an inferior play. A good teacher can help you. :)
Author:  mhlepore [ Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is your method of getting better at Go?
In my opinion, learning one new thing a day is a lot. Maybe pick a topic - like the opening - and choose to learn what you can about a particular opening over a period of weeks. Get go software with a pro game database and which can search fusekis. Mimicking the pros won't make you a pro, but repetition of good habits has been important for me.

Also, playing AI is fine, but probably better to play at a Go club, where someone who is stronger than you can explain why you lost (instead of just beating you).
Author:  BlindGroup [ Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is your method of getting better at Go?
Good question! I probably spend the most time playing and reviewing the games afterwards. Those reviews usually involve looking up specific positions in books or professional games. So, it involves study as well. But I find that allowing my games to dictate my focus keeps me directed towards the things that are relevant to my level. I also tend to remember the details better because they are connected to actual experiences. I also try to spend time just reading and watching videos (usually Sibicky and sometimes Dwyrin), but I tend to find them most useful when going back to them when reviewing a game.

The other big thing has been soliciting comments from stronger players. L19 has been fantastic :bow: But I also have found it very useful to take regular lessons. (I realize that this is a controversial subject.) I've been taking lessons from Alexandre Dinerchtein for a while now. I don't mean for this to be a plug for him (although, if you are looking for someone, he has my endorsement!), but instead, I'm advocating that one find someone who could be a mentor or like a coach. Part of it is, of course, expertise. But I think the most useful part is having someone with that expertise look at your games regularly. Consistent attention allows them to better direct your study by seeing patterns across your games. Things that may not be clear in a single game review.

Finally, one thing that never seems to get discussed in these "how to improve" discussions is the specific skill sets of individual players. I suspect that different types of study would be useful to different players. For example, my visual memory (the ability to look at a picture and then recall the details of the picture later) is one of my weaker skills. So, I can't just look at a particular position and remember it later without special effort. But my ability to remember relationships between things is VERY good. So, once I work with a joseki for a while and begin to understand the role of each move, I retain the information much more easily. I think this is also one of the reasons that I also am more likely to remember critical points and move sequences when I see them as part of a game review. Within the context of the game, the role of the individual moves is often much clearer.

I've also noticed that I tend to get more out of books in which the authors organize the information along more general principles than books in which the authors are more focused on the details of specific positions. Examples are useful on occasion, but a series of examples with little explanation of how they relate to each other is not. I work from general relationships to remember specific details, rather than vice-versa. For example, I bought Cho Chikun's All About Life and Death. It's a very thorough book -- it provides the status and correct playing sequences for myriad positions on the side and corner. But he provides almost no guidance on how the different positions are related. He shows you the details of how to handle individual positions, but the most he does in terms of drawing connections between the different shapes is to assess slight variations. I read through the first volume, but retained almost nothing. I ended up using it largely as a reference until a few weeks ago when I started trying to make my own connections between the various shapes. That's provided the framework that I need to remember the details in the book and has made the information much more valuable.
Author:  Knotwilg [ Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: What is your method of getting better at Go?
What took me from 6k to 2k:

going abroad, where I joined a club where the top level was 1k, after having been in a club where the top level was 6k

What took me from 2 kyu to 2 dan:

- a rival-friend
- against whom I played serious games
- with progressive handicap
- which I thoroughly reviewed

What would have taken me from 2 dan to 4 dan:

- a great teacher (a 6d with unparallelled teaching skills)
- who finally gave me access to middle game exercises and quasi-joseki
- and who had access to the secrets of Asia in terms of traditional technique and modern strategy

Unfortunately he suddenly disappeared from the go scene.

Big investments which didn't seem to have all that much of an impact:

- replaying pro games
- doing tsumego
- reading books
- writing on sensei's library
- reviewing games on the GTL or here

But I enjoyed all of that taking and giving.
Author:  Pio2001 [ Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is your method of getting better at Go?
Hi,
I read a lot of books and play a lot on KGS. I seldom have my games reviewed.

What took me from 11 to 9 kyu : a french book about counting the score in the middle of the game. I had completely forgotten that the goal was to get enough points to win the game. I was just playing what looked to be the best move, without looking if i was ahead or behind in the game.

It took me two years to get from 6k to 5k.

Reading the Level Up series helped a lot. I don't like tsumego at all, except the ones in level Up, because the books are fun to read, the problems are easy, and they are organized by theme. Like "false eye by the diagonal" - 24 problems, "false eye by the one point jump" - 24 problems, "false eye on the first line" - 24 problems. And the false eye is marked on the figure.
It's looks too easy, and I nearly always get them right, but one thing is sure, after that, any false eye in my games immediately pops in my mind without having to read it.

Also, taking a break from kgs for two weeks resulted in a sudden improvement. Before, I was trying to play as most as possible, but it was tiring. And I play very badly when I am tired.
Playing some quiet games after a break of two weeks allowed me to be much more relaxed about the game. I used all my thinking time, and applied all the principles that I knew, because I was missing go, and it was a pleasure to read all the possibilities after each move. When I play too much, it looks more like a job that I have to finish, hoping to gain experience in the process. Forcing myself to play one game a day is a bad thing for me, because I spoil these games not putting all my strength in them.
Author:  Kirby [ Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is your method of getting better at Go?
be passionate about improving. It will probably happen eventually, whatever road you take. Just don't lose your passion.
Author:  jeromie [ Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: What is your method of getting better at Go?
I have read a number of books, and some of them were very helpful early in my journey through go. However, most of my recent improvement comes just by playing regularly. There is a major caveat to that, though: I often stagnate if life is stressful outside of go. I can look at my KGS rank graph for the last year and track major life events by the dips and plateaus. When I play the game as a way to deal with stress, my mind is not in a good place for learning.

It's also important that I don't let frequent play cause me to descend into a rut. Reviewing my games, even if the review is very quick, helps with this. So does intentionally trying out a new idea over a series of games, even if it temporarily causes me to lose more games.

I don't think my approach is necessarily the most efficient way to get better. I'm sure I could have greater success with a more concentrated effort. But I am enjoying every step of the way. :-)
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