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Informal talk on Go (without explaining the rules)
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Author:  Tooveli [ Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Informal talk on Go (without explaining the rules)
I'm going to be giving an informal 20 minute or so talk on "one of my hobbies or outside interests".
I've chosen to give a talk about "Tales from the Go World" that intentionally avoids mentioning how to play the game and computer go. (There has been a previous talk as an introduction to the game around a year ago).

I was wondering if anyone had any ideas for inclusion or links to any references.

Here is my plan so far:

Origins of go and general quotes/stories about the game:
-> Chinese Emperor Teaching his son
-> Immortals in the forest
-> Lasker aliens
-> Lasker and Einstein
-> William Pinckard monk story

The life of Shusaku:
-> Castle games and his record
-> Interesting stories from Invincible

Rivalries between different Go houses in Japan (the entertaining parts).
-> I'm not sure where to find this but I believe there's some in Invincible

Specific Games with Stories:
-> Ear-reddening move
-> Atom bomb game
-> Blood Vomiting game
-> White wins but Black doesn't lose

Stories from my experiences in the Go world.

I'll also bring in my slate and shell stones and talk about stones and boards a bit.

I should probably also include some stories about young prodigies especially if I can find some cute pictures to go with it.

I'll also look through the following for any interesting snippets:
-> Nei Weiping: the introduction of Art of Positional Judgment (I remember the intro being quite entertaining)
-> Appreciating Famous Games (I think I remember a few amusing passages from the introduction to the games)
-> Dramatic Moments on the Go board (probably doesn't have much of interest to non-go players)


I think there's already plenty of stuff to work with and I should be able to trim it down to 20 mins of stories that will interest non go players. However, please let me know if there's anything you think I should include or any good references I may have missed!
Author:  Jedo [ Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Informal talk on Go (without explaining the rules)
White wins but black doesn't lose?! :shock:
Author:  oren [ Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Informal talk on Go (without explaining the rules)
Jedo wrote:
White wins but black doesn't lose?! :shock:


I hadn't heard it before either, but this should help.

http://www.msoworld.com/mindzine/news/o ... teai2.html
Author:  jts [ Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Informal talk on Go (without explaining the rules)
Jedo wrote:
White wins but black doesn't lose?! :shock:

One of the sillier-sounding decisions handed down by the Japanese rules committees, I believe. (It might make perfect sense in the context of tournament scoring, of course.) link
Author:  hyperpape [ Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Informal talk on Go (without explaining the rules)
How much public speaking experience do you have? I ask only because I think you have too much material, which is a common difficulty. Rehearse your speech at least once. When you go over twenty minutes, don't try and compensate. Just cut, and speak slower, because you were rushing yourself while practicing and talking too fast. You can be more concise, but telling a compelling story isn't really about being concise.

400 years of Japanese Go has even more intrigues than Invincible. It's a good book.

P.S. senseis.xmp.net/?Prodigy, see especially Liao Xingwen. He hasn't yet lit up the professional world, but the stories John Fairbairn relates are quite nice.
Author:  Tooveli [ Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Informal talk on Go (without explaining the rules)
hyperpape wrote:
I think you have too much material ...


Yeah, there's clearly lots of stuff in the list and I don't plan on using all of it.
I have the feeling that when I look at it all again I'll find that most of the stories are memorable because I'm a go player and won't be all that interesting to a general audience. I'm just going to pick the best ones, but it can't hurt to have a big list to start with.
Author:  CnP [ Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Informal talk on Go (without explaining the rules)
Ok, just my opinion but - for a 20 minute talk I'd focus on just one of your ideas. I think the Atom bomb game (+ the build up to it, e.g. players biography & the tradition of Honinbo title) makes a 'good' story, and you've got a surprise for the audience there - when they continue playing after. Also, I doubt they'd remember a talk from a year ago so I'd have thought 1-2 slides on what Go is at a very basic level would be useful at the start. You wouldn't need people to understand it but I'd be tempted to have a snapshot of the game in the corner of each slide, progressing throughout the talk, timed to get to the right point at the bomb slide.
Author:  Mef [ Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Informal talk on Go (without explaining the rules)
CnP wrote:
Ok, just my opinion but - for a 20 minute talk I'd focus on just one of your ideas. I think the Atom bomb game (+ the build up to it, e.g. players biography & the tradition of Honinbo title) makes a 'good' story, and you've got a surprise for the audience there - when they continue playing after. Also, I doubt they'd remember a talk from a year ago so I'd have thought 1-2 slides on what Go is at a very basic level would be useful at the start. You wouldn't need people to understand it but I'd be tempted to have a snapshot of the game in the corner of each slide, progressing throughout the talk, timed to get to the right point at the bomb slide.


I agree with this you have a lot of stuff and should really focus on just one or two things. Also as you and others have mentioned it would be good to separate "interesting and about go" from "interesting to those who know about go."

For instance -- I think the Atom Bomb game, and ear-reddening game both have interesting stories even if you aren't a go player (similarly the book "Master of Go" is a great story about go, that non-go players can find interesting).

Blood vomiting game is a potentially interesting as well, though it's more interesting if you know about go (since much of the story revolves around ghost moves, trick joseki, go politics, etc).

White wins, black does not lose is the type of thing that is interesting to go players who like learning about rules, but to an "outsider" would be boring if mentioned more than only in passing.

Lasker/etc on go as a story/talking point, I think we find more interesting as go players, not so sure how much those outside the go community really care about it (unless of course they were in the chess community and would be interested it because they are already interested in Lasker) -- however quotes can make great fodder for transition slides, or slides that otherwise have a large amount of awkward empty space (assuming your talk involves slides).



My own biases might show a little here, but it might help to try and relate go to things your audience might already be interested in, for instance comparing the professional go scene to professional sports like golf (Often the idea of people winning large sums of money doing an activity seems to give it value). Similarly, perhaps a tale of someone like Fujisawa Shuko, who managed to make a living playing 7 games of go per year (and fund a drinking habit and a gambling habit while doing so!). I think if I were someone unfamiliar with go I would be more interested in these stories compared with the origin of Go (something I would be interested in learning once I was already familiar with go).

Just my 2 cents.
Author:  RedStick [ Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Informal talk on Go (without explaining the rules)
Even if you don't want to go into the rules I would definitely talk about the nature of the game a bit.

Board starts with no pieces and then the stones don't move. the balance between local and global, and the ever evolving depth of our understanding of the game. The fact that professionals routinely invent new openings etc... maybe share an acient poem.
Author:  Tooveli [ Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Informal talk on Go (without explaining the rules)
Thanks for the advice. In the end I chose to focus on the life of Shusaku with some brief background about go in the Edo period. It went fairly well.
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