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Tournament - Thinking On Your Opponent's Time
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Author:  ross [ Wed May 12, 2010 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Tournament - Thinking On Your Opponent's Time
My response to Araban's post got me thinking about this question. What kind of player are you?
Author:  Kirby [ Wed May 12, 2010 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tournament - Thinking On Your Opponent's Time
My mind isn't wandering, but I do most of my board evaluation during my opponent's time. During my own time, I'm usually planning or reading out sequences. During my opponent's time, I try to count or judge how well I'm doing more than reading actual sequences.
Author:  ross [ Wed May 12, 2010 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tournament - Thinking On Your Opponent's Time
Kirby wrote:
My mind isn't wandering, but I do most of my board evaluation during my opponent's time. During my own time, I'm usually planning or reading out sequences. During my opponent's time, I try to count or judge how well I'm doing more than reading actual sequences.

Wouldn't that fall under option #2? (Or are you not the "Other" vote?)
Author:  Kirby [ Wed May 12, 2010 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tournament - Thinking On Your Opponent's Time
OK, I updated my vote. I'm notoriously bad at polls (both in creation and in participation).

I guess I left a comment because the type of thinking that I do is different between my own time and my opponent's.
Author:  cdybeijing [ Wed May 12, 2010 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tournament - Thinking On Your Opponent's Time
I like to count and assess aji during my opponent's time.
Author:  xed_over [ Wed May 12, 2010 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tournament - Thinking On Your Opponent's Time
Sure, I'm usually thinking on my opponent's time... thinking how bad my last move was :o
Author:  phrax [ Wed May 12, 2010 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tournament - Thinking On Your Opponent's Time
I find my opponent's time is a good time for counting and finding tenuki opportunities. Any reading I do is usually for situations on other parts of the board. My brain apparently only wants to read the local situation when my clock is running..
Author:  DrStraw [ Wed May 12, 2010 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tournament - Thinking On Your Opponent's Time
Isn't that kind of like stealing? Using someone else's resources for your own benefit. Surely no honest, upright person would do such a thing.
Author:  Fedya [ Wed May 12, 2010 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tournament - Thinking On Your Opponent's Time
If only thinking more would actually help me come up with better moves. :(
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Wed May 12, 2010 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tournament - Thinking On Your Opponent's Time
During my time it is primarily reading. During the opponent's time it is counting, or direction of play analysis.
Author:  Tyson2011 [ Wed May 12, 2010 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tournament - Thinking On Your Opponent's Time
i generally count/look at potential ko threats on my opponents time
Author:  Solomon [ Wed May 12, 2010 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tournament - Thinking On Your Opponent's Time
I do just as much on my opponent's time as I do on my own time, from reading to counting to everything.
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Wed May 12, 2010 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tournament - Thinking On Your Opponent's Time
Araban wrote:
I do just as much on my opponent's time as I do on my own time, from reading to counting to everything.


Counting works because you have a rough idea of the temperature, and you can add 1/2 of that to your opponent's score. But reading is inefficient because you are always 1/2 ply behind.
Author:  Nikolas73 [ Wed May 12, 2010 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tournament - Thinking On Your Opponent's Time
xed_over wrote:
Sure, I'm usually thinking on my opponent's time... thinking how bad my last move was :o

:lol:

When I'm not xed_over's situation, I usually use my opponent's time to think just as I would if it were my own turn. Especially during large fights - I will predict one or two (more, if there is time) places where my opponent will play and read the sequences from there. The result is that I have a lot of time remaining in the endgame, but my opponent will be lower on time (usually - it depends on who the opponent is).
Author:  Mcgreag [ Thu May 13, 2010 4:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tournament - Thinking On Your Opponent's Time
I usually don't think during my opponents move but there are some exceptions. I might reread a sequence I thought out during my own move to make sure I haven't made a misstake. I also sometimes do counting of who might be ahead and I do endgame reading and counting during my opponents turn.
Author:  Phelan [ Thu May 13, 2010 4:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tournament - Thinking On Your Opponent's Time
I try to use every bit of time I can get to think, whether mine or my opponent's. I just wish I could count more efficiently to be able to do it on my opponent's time.
Right now I only estimate visually.
Author:  zinger [ Thu May 13, 2010 5:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tournament - Thinking On Your Opponent's Time
Depends on the stage of the game.

Early on, I use my opponent's time for positional evaluation, checking invasions, and hunting for aji. Later I use it primarily to evaluate and order endgame plays.

What I have learned not to do, is try to anticipate his move and read out an answer. He rarely does what I expect and that thinking mostly goes to waste.
Author:  freegame [ Thu May 13, 2010 5:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tournament - Thinking On Your Opponent's Time
Quote:
No, I try but my mind ends up wandering or thinking about irrelevant things


this fits myself exactly. I try to think in my opponents time, but usually I don't get much reading done because I take a look at the game next to me or indeed start thinking about other things.
Author:  Phelan [ Thu May 13, 2010 6:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tournament - Thinking On Your Opponent's Time
Something I didn't mention before: When I think during my opponent's time, I try to think about different areas than the one I expect him to play in, unless there's a tough battle happening.
Author:  Solomon [ Thu May 13, 2010 8:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tournament - Thinking On Your Opponent's Time
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Araban wrote:
I do just as much on my opponent's time as I do on my own time, from reading to counting to everything.


Counting works because you have a rough idea of the temperature, and you can add 1/2 of that to your opponent's score. But reading is inefficient because you are always 1/2 ply behind.

Maybe I'm too tired, but I can't tell if there's sarcasm in this post or not. Reading on your opponent's time is certainly not inefficient just because you're 1/2 a play behind. If you read a sequence that you play the first move for and your opponent plays the second move as expected, then great - we can agree hopefully that the amount of extra reading you've done going over any variations in the sequence that both players are in was not for naught.

However, is it really for naught if your opponent plays a move that's unexpected and wasn't what you considered as you read during his time? In my opinion, absolutely not. The variations you've covered in your opponent's time, even though they were based on the assumption of a move from the opponent that never happened, serve as reference in determining whether the move he played was good or bad and allows you to make a judgement call on the local situation. If, after you've read out your opponent's unexpected move (on your own time now) and find that his move is better, than you've learned something new, whether it be a new shape or pattern or tactic or you've found a hole in your reading or you've made a silly mistake, etc. If you find that his move is worse, then it's a LOT easier to conclude that you've found the punishment for it because you've got something to compare it to - what you learned on your opponent's time.

But then again, anyone with common sense would not just assume 1 move from his opponent and cover all the variations based on that move during his opponent's time, that's clearly reckless. Go over all the reasonable (and as one get stronger, the moves he considers "reasonable" changes) moves that your opponent could play, and try to analyze them to some depth but not too deep (and again, as one get stronger this becomes easier to do). It is no doubt more difficult to read on your opponent's time, but inefficient? I don't think so. I would argue that's not only efficient, it's crucial.

Also, my argument only applies to local situations. For instance, if there's a corner on the other side of the board that reeks of bad aji that your opponent refuses to invest another move into and you think it can be killed but is difficult to find the answer for (basically, a natural tsumego), then of course using your opponent's time as well as your own to read it out is also efficient.
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