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When is the right time to resign or continue a game?
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Author:  Alberich [ Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  When is the right time to resign or continue a game?
Obviously you should resign when you know you're losing but playing Go makes it hard to see when you're losing unlike western chess when it's very clear to see you're losing. So my question is twofold:

1. Are there any tips for knowing the right time to resign a game to avoid embarrassment for prolonging the struggle?

2. Are there any tips for helping one decide to continue the game and not resign?
Author:  Alguien [ Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When is the right time to resign or continue a game?
A little about it at sensei

Resign when you are certain that you can't win unless the opponent starts filling his own eyes.

My only suggestions are:
- When you decide you should resign, play a couple more moves and then decide again. Don't resign based on a single board position.
- When you are sure that the only way for you to win would be a brutal blunder by your opponent, its better to resign and go to the next game than to place stones everywhere hoping for that blunder. It's unpolite, a time waste and you learn nothing for the next game.

I don't really regret resigned games, even if I later discover I might have had a chance, because the time not spent on a lost game is better used on one with possibilities.
Author:  OtakuViking [ Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When is the right time to resign or continue a game?
1. You know you should resign when your opponent has no aji left for you to exploit, all positions are settled and you're terribly behind on points.
Of course you need to know how much you are behind/ahead and the way to do this is to count points and then factor in weaknesses in the positions which might be exploited later.
As a general rule, keep playing until it is obvious to you that you can't do anything that might turn the game around. Never resign too early! If you can try something, try it! I vote that it's a more dignified way of losing than simply giving up prematurely.


2. Is there any chance of attacking/killing something? Can you make a desperate invasion and try to live in order to turn the game around? If so, keep playing :)
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When is the right time to resign or continue a game?
Alberich wrote:
... but playing Go makes it hard to see when you're losing ...


I've seen a pro resign with 20+ moves to go. He knew that his opponent would win by 1.5 points.

When to resign? When the only way you can win is if your opponent has a heart attack.
Author:  palapiku [ Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When is the right time to resign or continue a game?
Alberich wrote:
2. Are there any tips for helping one decide to continue the game and not resign?

If you are ahead, don't resign
Author:  jts [ Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is the right time to resign or continue a game?
I would suggest not resigning until you're quite good. Go is actually not that different from chess in this regard; beginners are inclined to resign after, say, losing their queen, when in fact your strategic position may be absolutely better (even to the point of having a mating sequence that you're missing), and even if it's not, there is still plenty of room to recover if your opponent is e.g. weak in endgame.
Author:  Alguien [ Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is the right time to resign or continue a game?
jts wrote:
(even to the point of having a mating sequence that you're missing)


Oh yes. I've missed so many mating sequences...
Author:  gowan [ Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is the right time to resign or continue a game?
palapiku wrote:
Alberich wrote:
2. Are there any tips for helping one decide to continue the game and not resign?

If you are ahead, don't resign


I hope my elderly brain isn't playing tricks on me but I believe it happened that the famous Japanese pro Otake Hideo 9-dan, multiple winner of the Meijin tournament and other top tournaments, once resigned a game where he was ahead because he was disgusted with his play. If you are a great master who cares deeply about the artistic character of his play, like Otake, then that makes sense. For the rest of us I think resigning when you think you have no chance to win is a reasonable policy. Sure, we'll make some mistakes that way and resign games we could have won if only we had seen the way but so what. You'll get to play more games that way and you will take a step towards losing the egotistical idea that whether you win or lose is at all important.
Author:  Bonobo [ Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  [OT] Re: When is the right time to resign or continue a game
gowan wrote:
[..] I believe [..] Otake Hideo 9-dan [..] once resigned a game where he was ahead [..]
He’d be banned on KGS (or at least admonished) if this game had been played there—IIRC their TOS forbids resigning when one’s ahead :D
Author:  Kirby [ Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is the right time to resign or continue a game?
The right time to resign is when it's not fun anymore.
Author:  Alberich [ Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is the right time to resign or continue a game?
Kirby wrote:
The right time to resign is when it's not fun anymore.


Define "when it's not fun anymore".
Author:  oren [ Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is the right time to resign or continue a game?
Alberich wrote:
Define "when it's not fun anymore".


When all the aji is gone.... :)
Author:  Kirby [ Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is the right time to resign or continue a game?
Alberich wrote:
Kirby wrote:
The right time to resign is when it's not fun anymore.


Define "when it's not fun anymore".


I think I can define what's fun for me, but if I have to define what's fun for you, then I've gotta say I'm at a loss...
Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is the right time to resign or continue a game?
It is never the right time to resign! :twisted:

...unless you're my opponent. In that case...

It is always the right time to resign! :mrgreen:
Author:  Laman [ Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When is the right time to resign or continue a game?
resigning always hurts your chance of winning.

on the other hand, at my last tournament i won 3 games, by 20, 30 and 40 points, and playing out the endgame in these felt a bit pointless (for a 2k EGF). resign when you see that continuing just wastes your or opponent's time.

(edited wrong word choice)
Author:  p2501 [ Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When is the right time to resign or continue a game?
Reminded me of this tweet:
https://twitter.com/BadukMovies/status/ ... 2491461632
Author:  daal [ Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When is the right time to resign or continue a game?
It also makes a difference how strong both you and your opponent are. If you are both ddk, I'd say never resign. Who knows what you might discover? If you are ddk and your opponent is sdk or better, it might be good to resign when you think you are significantly behind in order to not try your opponent's patience. This might encourage them to point out the mistakes you've already made and perhaps play you again sooner rather than later. Same goes for sdk vs dan. I recall Shapenaji saying that he would quit against his mentor if a group had lost it's meaning. With sdk vs sdk, you should be able to know if the game is no longer close, and if there isn't much exploitable aji and the game isn't already almost finished anyway, resigning is a way of cutting your losses. You can practice your endgame in a game where it might make a difference. As to what dans vs dans should do, I guess we'll find out when we get there .
Author:  SmoothOper [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is the right time to resign or continue a game?
Alguien wrote:
A little about it at sensei

[...] its better to resign and go to the next game than to place stones everywhere hoping for that blunder. It's unpolite, a time waste and you learn nothing for the next game.

I don't really regret resigned games, even if I later discover I might have had a chance, because the time not spent on a lost game is better used on one with possibilities.


If I am winning, I appreciate the opportunity to take my opponents stones off the board. I especially like capturing large groups. I also prefer playing games out and if possible calculating out the blunders(both mine and my opponents), sometimes it isn't possible but sometimes it is, like if they or I didn't read out a life and death problem correctly. Sometimes I feel it is a waste of time to start another game just because of a mistake, and on IGS I will review and play out the game by myself anyway.

I think the resigning early thing only really applies to players of dramatically different strengths or massive blunders early in the game.
Author:  Time [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is the right time to resign or continue a game?
If you've ever played on tygem, you should know that you should never resign until your opponent can't self-atari any of their groups anymore.
Author:  Alguien [ Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When is the right time to resign or continue a game?
The real answer to that question is: "between the first and the last moves, both included."

That is the only time when it's correct to resign or continue a game.
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