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Cool Whole-Board Sekis
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Author:  logan [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Cool Whole-Board Sekis
Here's a cool whole board seki from a Ming period book. The game is called: "Discovering the Hidden Messages of Heaven on the Go Board."



BTW, do you know any josekies after this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 3 . 4 . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . .
$$ | . . . . . 1 . 2 . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ --------------------------[/go]

Apparently, it was another one of those well-known positions in ancient Chinese go. Another position forgotten by modern go players (although I'm sure many of us were advised against it as younger players). There was even a go manual written analyzing the position.

Attachments:
1634-00-00.sgf [2.08 KiB]
Downloaded 987 times
Author:  Phoenix [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cool Whole-Board Sekis
logan wrote:
BTW, do you know any josekies after this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 3 . 4 . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . .
$$ | . . . . . 1 . 2 . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ --------------------------[/go]

Apparently, it was another one of those well-known positions in ancient Chinese go. Another position forgotten by modern go players (although I'm sure many of us were advised against it as younger players). There was even a go manual written analyzing the position.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . a X d . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . 1 c b . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ --------------------------[/go]



In this position :w1: lives. White should of course avoid letting Black swallow up the stone whole. At any rate, it seems like the only reasonable option. This move makes miai of attaching at a and connecting under at b.

I don't know the continuation past this point. All I know is if Black plays kosumi-tsuke at c, White will ignore it and play a regardless. With supporting stones on the left side, the strong cut at d may be an option.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 4 6 . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 3 X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 5 . . X . W . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . W . . . . .
$$ | . . . 1 2 . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ --------------------------[/go]


Peaceful continuation. Black has gote, but the :b4: - :b6: turn is very big and the status of the marked stones is extremely important in choosing to jump along with Black in the first place. Letting Black make the keima is a special strategy to begin with (we all know getting a sealed-in corner is bad).

If concrete lines have been worked out for other variations, I haven't seem them in joseki books. :scratch:
Author:  SoDesuNe [ Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cool Whole-Board Sekis
A KGS user with name "twoeye" played (plays - I don't know) this variation a lot but he almost exclusively cut the Keima and then started a big fight from this corner (and got good results, if I'm not mistaken). White generally has no problems living in the corner, it seems.
Author:  logan [ Sat Apr 20, 2013 2:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cool Whole-Board Sekis
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . 1 X . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ --------------------------[/go]

This move has some fun continuations. Can you guys find the next few moves? :)

And with this continuation, there's no reason why White has to be sealed in so docilely. How do you continue?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X 1 . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 3 2 X . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . .
$$ | . . . . . X . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ --------------------------[/go]



Moves 106 & 108, what an attack!

Mv. 130, no holds barred!

Mv. 234, haha White squeezed this poor clump of stones so much yet still couldn't gain much. Wow



Attachments:
1600s.sgf [1.56 KiB]
Downloaded 935 times
Author:  Mef [ Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cool Whole-Board Sekis
logan wrote:
BTW, do you know any josekies after this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm1
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . 3 . 4 . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . .
$$ | . . . . . 1 . 2 . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ --------------------------[/go]

Apparently, it was another one of those well-known positions in ancient Chinese go. Another position forgotten by modern go players (although I'm sure many of us were advised against it as younger players). There was even a go manual written analyzing the position.


SoDesuNe wrote:
A KGS user with name "twoeye" played (plays - I don't know) this variation a lot but he almost exclusively cut the Keima and then started a big fight from this corner (and got good results, if I'm not mistaken). White generally has no problems living in the corner, it seems.


I don't know about joseki, but in Alex Dinerchtein/An Younggil's book New Moves there's about 7 pages of discussion about this. Amusingly, I'm pretty sure they used a twoeye game as the source material.
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