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| Looking for a new go server.... http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9436 |
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| Author: | paK0 [ Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Looking for a new go server.... |
See title. It should have: - English Client - Automatch - Ranked without handicap-stones(i still want to play against people with higher/lower rank though) I use KGS right now but the fact that I can't play ranked matches without handicap-stones really annoys me. Does something like this exist or am I stuck with KGS? Thanks in advance |
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| Author: | MJK [ Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a new go server.... |
Tygem or Wbaduk (Oro) may suffice. But likely for you to have an unusual experience when starting with 18k~16k in these servers. You will know what this means by a practical try. If you are somewhere around KGS 15k~30k, Start with a 15k Tygem account. I mention only Tygem, for my self-opinion of its being better than other alternatives. You will have more than plenty of opponents searching for a game in Tygem. |
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| Author: | oren [ Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a new go server.... |
Ranked without handicap stones against stronger or weaker players is not really supported anywhere with automatch. I play on KGS with automatch and set handicap to lowest and you can play all even games. You can of course do the same with automatch on igs, wbaduk, and tygem... |
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| Author: | nacroxnicke [ Wed Nov 27, 2013 10:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a new go server.... |
In tygem or Wbaduk you can get automatch games with stronger people on even terms, I think that is very helpful to get stronger at your stage (see how they tenuki, how they preserve cutting points, how they handle liberties and weak groups). Just be sure to post the games here or to analyze them by yourself (You need to analyze opponent's moves to make it helpful) PD: For example, a good idea for Tygem may be to push up your rank a few stones to be able to play with stronger players, for example if you are 12 kyu, try playing as 9 kyu on tygem, or if you are 14kyu, playing as 10 kyu on Tygem, it's probably that you will lose a lot of games, but you will learn a lot, and improve very very fast. |
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| Author: | paK0 [ Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a new go server.... |
Thanks, I guess I'll give Tygem a try. @nacroxnicke: Yeah, that is my plan, imo handicap-stones really water down the learning effect. Once I die horribly to something I'm more likely to avoid it and I get to learn how to exploit mistakes like that first hand^^ |
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| Author: | moyoaji [ Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a new go server.... |
I would second Oren's advice. I currently play with automatch set to a rank difference of +/- 2. This means that the most I ever get is a 2 stone handicap one way or the other and mostly I play people equal to my rank or 1 different - so there are no stones at the start (just lack of komi for white). When it comes to playing stronger players without handicaps you can do so with custom games. Find someone stronger that has already posted a game in the English Game Room and challenge them with no handicap (you can adjust it when you go to challenge them). Or post a custom ranked game and give it a description like "14-10k, no handicap please" and see if anyone wants to play you no handicap ranked. If your main concern is learning then the KGS Teaching Ladder can be a great place to ask for a game with a stronger player. SDK and sometimes even dan players can give you an even game and point out any mistakes. If you would like I could even do a game with you. You can message me either here or on the KGS. However, if you wish to try out Tygem I cannot say it is a bad server. It has a lot of players. I wanted to try it out but had difficulty getting the client installed so I didn't bother. Perhaps I should give it a try again. |
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| Author: | tacotacotaco [ Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a new go server.... |
Try out the new OGS! The original OGS and Nova.GS recently merged into a brand new server! They now have not only correspondence but even live and blitz games. You can play ranked games with no handicaps too! |
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| Author: | oren [ Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a new go server.... |
tacotacotaco wrote: You can play ranked games with no handicaps too! There is no automatch which was the source of the first question though. I still haven't seen a server that will automatch no handicap with ratings differences. |
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| Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a new go server.... |
oren wrote: tacotacotaco wrote: You can play ranked games with no handicaps too! There is no automatch which was the source of the first question though. I still haven't seen a server that will automatch no handicap with ratings differences. While there's no automatch, if you put up an open game offer then from your perspective it's the same as automatch, as you'll get matched with the first person to accept the offer. You can make your game offer so that there will be no handicaps, and you can restrict by ranking which opponents can accept. What are you looking for in automatch that isn't in this? |
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| Author: | paK0 [ Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a new go server.... |
Mh, that sounds close enough to automatch, thanks, I'll keep it in mind and check it out. |
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| Author: | Mef [ Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a new go server.... |
As others have mentioned, non-default handicap in rated automatch games is going to be a hard feature to find, since the point of automatch is that a default pairing is acceptable (putting in any non-standard condition will limit your pool).. There are several servers that support this is vision games/challenges though. As an aside, I would approach the thought on handicap from a different route. Instead of diluting your learning, it focuses it. If you would lose a game with a three stone handicap, then clearly your opening is not the problem (as you are unlikely to build a >3 stone advantage through opening moves). Your real weaknesses are going to be the points where you give up your advantage from the handicap. These are the things to really work on. Playing even may obscure where your flaws truly lay because you don't notice going from a "losing" game to a "lost" game. |
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| Author: | moyoaji [ Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a new go server.... |
@Mef: I agree that between players who know each other playing a handicap game can be much better for both players. Games at the West Michigan Go Club would not be very interesting to me or fun for my opponents if we didn't use handicaps. It is also nice to see handicaps change over time as players get better. One guy there has moved from having as high as 8 stones against me to now beating me 2/3 times with 5 stones. It makes the matches much better for both players. However, between two players that don't know each other handicaps are going to be less accurate and, as a result, probably less fun. That's why I prefer not to play with handicap stones on KGS. And it does make it hard if the player on either side is weak in the opening because that weakness is less likely to show up. But what are your thoughts on the reverse-komi option? I think it's a nice way to give the weaker player a chance to work on opening moves. It is said each handicap stone is worth 10 points so for a 5 stone handicap you give black 50 points. I've done this a few times at the club and the games have been just as competitive but the one taking black can play a true opening. It can also be nicer for the one taking white as they can play a regular opening as well. We don't do it that often; I suppose regular handicap games are just easier, but when we do I find it's a nice change of pace. |
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| Author: | paK0 [ Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a new go server.... |
I think the reverse komi idea is a lot better than the handicap stones, but even then there is the possibility that it might get white to play different than they normally would. |
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| Author: | oren [ Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a new go server.... |
paK0 wrote: I think the reverse komi idea is a lot better than the handicap stones, but even then there is the possibility that it might get white to play different than they normally would. It's more than a possibility. They would have to... |
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| Author: | paK0 [ Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a new go server.... |
oren wrote: paK0 wrote: I think the reverse komi idea is a lot better than the handicap stones, but even then there is the possibility that it might get white to play different than they normally would. It's more than a possibility. They would have to... In a perfect world they would just play normal and the skill difference would make it an even game =). But yeah, in most cases being behind from the start encourages overplays and confusing moves. |
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| Author: | asura [ Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Looking for a new go server.... |
paK0 wrote: I think the reverse komi idea is a lot better than the handicap stones, but even then there is the possibility that it might get white to play different than they normally would. I think with reverse komi I would change my play with black, too. Maybe even more than with handicap stones.
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