Life In 19x19
http://prod.lifein19x19.com/

New Super Meijin Tournament (interviews)
http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1190		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Peter Hansmeier [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  New Super Meijin Tournament (interviews)
Q: Please discuss this game.

Lee Changho: Before White started the ko on the upper side I felt that Black was rather comfortable. After the ko started I was sure that I had more ko threats.

Gu Li: I did not play very well in the opening. The exchange in the lower right was not good for White. I started the ko because I felt behind in territory, and choosing not to fight would not have worked. In the end my ko threats were insufficient.

Q: How has your condition been recently?

Gu Li: Recently I have been very busy, continuously playing matches for the Asian Games selection tournament, but my condition is actually pretty good. However, today I did not bring my strength to bear.

Q: What is your outlook on tomorrow's game with Iyama Yuta?

Gu Li: Being able to play games against these Korean and Japanese masters makes me very happy. Being able to play more games like this would be a good thing.

Q: Please discuss the game:

Iyama Yuta: These two players are both very strong. I felt that White had a good position in the opening, but Lee Changho fought hard to get a favorable position. It is a pity that Gu Li lost.

Q: What is your outlook on tomorrow's game with Gu Li?

Iyama Yuta: Five years ago I played a match against Gu Li, but I was still very young, and the disparity in our skill was very great. After five years of effort I feel that my skill has improved. Tomorrow I will be confident and strive hard in my game against Gu Li.
---
Comments from before the first match:

Iyama Yuta: I am the youngest to participate in the match, and I have not yet won against Lee Changho or Gu Li. I will play my best and try to learn from them.
---
Gu Li: [Addressing a question regarding his personal life] The most important thing for me is to be the strongest player in China. I am focused on improving my skill to achieve bigger successes. I believe that the best women seek successful men, and I have not yet achieved enough success.
---
Gu Li: The first time I came to Changde I felt that the scenery was beautiful and the people were warm. Tomorrow I face Lee Changho, who is extremely strong and is someone I have continuously pursued. My luck in matches played in Hunan has been good; I hope it continues for the coming match.
Author:  Ember [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Super Meijin Tournament (interviews)
A good read, thanks for posting (and translating, I guess)! Where did you get the interview from?
Author:  hyperpape [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Super Meijin Tournament (interviews)
Interesting that Iyama and Gu's evaluations of the opening might conflict like that.
Author:  Peter Hansmeier [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Super Meijin Tournament (interviews)
Ember wrote:
A good read, thanks for posting (and translating, I guess)! Where did you get the interview from?


My pleasure! Articles (such as this one) from many sources feature the interview in Chinese. The quotes from before the first round were from a couple different online articles.
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Super Meijin Tournament (interviews)

Gu Li wrote:
... I believe that the best women seek successful men, and I have not yet achieved enough success.


Play go and the women will beat a path to your door.
Author:  emeraldemon [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 4:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Super Meijin Tournament (interviews)
Do you know where we can find the sgf?
Author:  deja [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Super Meijin Tournament (interviews)
emeraldemon wrote:
Do you know where we can find the sgf?


http://justplaygo.com/index.php/JPG/lee ... er_meijin/
Author:  oren [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Super Meijin Tournament (interviews)
emeraldemon wrote:
Do you know where we can find the sgf?


Here you go from wbaduk...
Author:  ethanb [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Super Meijin Tournament (interviews)
hyperpape wrote:
Interesting that Iyama and Gu's evaluations of the opening might conflict like that.


I feel like white made two odd choices in direction, personally. I don't feel right criticizing the moves of one of the strongest players in the world, but...

1) In the lower left, after his three space low pincer he's stronger on the left side, and black's 3-4 stone to the right is open to approach from this direction, so I don't understand why he played this submissive answer to the taisha rather than cutting.

2) In the upper right, the attachment on top of the pincer stone just seems bizarre. I haven't checked to see if it's some joseki I just don't know or anything, but white's shape is so awful after that sequence - he needs two moves to fix it. After he fixes one side and black cuts the other, I feel like white is well behind and he's just paying the price for his wrong directional choices earlier.
Author:  Harleqin [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Super Meijin Tournament (interviews)
ethanb wrote:
I feel like white made two odd choices in direction, personally. I don't feel right criticizing the moves of one of the strongest players in the world, but...


Interestingly, I also found these two corners suspect.

Quote:
1) In the lower left, after his three space low pincer he's stronger on the left side, and black's 3-4 stone to the right is open to approach from this direction, so I don't understand why he played this submissive answer to the taisha rather than cutting.


I think that cutting would have been fine, but the idea might have been that the far pincer would reduce the usefulness of Black's resulting strength (I have the impression that Gu Li's style is more on the grab-territory-then-shinogi side). However, for that I think that it would have been better to play this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . 2 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , .
$$ | . . . O 1 . 3 . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]


I think that this would not give Black so much thickness, but White also gets less territory.

Quote:
2) In the upper right, the attachment on top of the pincer stone just seems bizarre. I haven't checked to see if it's some joseki I just don't know or anything, but white's shape is so awful after that sequence - he needs two moves to fix it. After he fixes one side and black cuts the other, I feel like white is well behind and he's just paying the price for his wrong directional choices earlier.


Actually, I think that I would not have approached from this side to begin with, but from the upper side. If Black then pincers, White can play the double approach. I cannot give reasons for my feeling, though, it seems just to work out better.
Author:  ethanb [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Super Meijin Tournament (interviews)
Harleqin wrote:
ethanb wrote:
I feel like white made two odd choices in direction, personally. I don't feel right criticizing the moves of one of the strongest players in the world, but...


Interestingly, I also found these two corners suspect.

Quote:
1) In the lower left, after his three space low pincer he's stronger on the left side, and black's 3-4 stone to the right is open to approach from this direction, so I don't understand why he played this submissive answer to the taisha rather than cutting.


I think that cutting would have been fine, but the idea might have been that the far pincer would reduce the usefulness of Black's resulting strength (I have the impression that Gu Li's style is more on the grab-territory-then-shinogi side). However, for that I think that it would have been better to play this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . 2 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , .
$$ | . . . O 1 . 3 . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]


I think that this would not give Black so much thickness, but White also gets less territory.


Yeah, I think that looks better if that's the plan.

Quote:
Quote:
2) In the upper right, the attachment on top of the pincer stone just seems bizarre. I haven't checked to see if it's some joseki I just don't know or anything, but white's shape is so awful after that sequence - he needs two moves to fix it. After he fixes one side and black cuts the other, I feel like white is well behind and he's just paying the price for his wrong directional choices earlier.


Actually, I think that I would not have approached from this side to begin with, but from the upper side. If Black then pincers, White can play the double approach. I cannot give reasons for my feeling, though, it seems just to work out better.


My guess is white didn't want a black pincer on top so he could make sure H17 would stay open. It's probably still better though.
Author:  kokomi [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Super Meijin Tournament (interviews)
ethanb wrote:

1) In the lower left, after his three space low pincer he's stronger on the left side, and black's 3-4 stone to the right is open to approach from this direction, so I don't understand why he played this submissive answer to the taisha rather than cutting.


hmm...
[flash=]http://player.56.com/v_NTM2OTIzMjk.swf[/flash]

hmm, why this flash doesn't work...
I assume you are talking about the kosumi. In the video, he's talking about this from 08.43 until 17.00, with many variations. He first asked what's special for black to play taisha when white has played 3 space pincer. And then talked about black's plan in this case. He emphasised this is not a 'submissive', but is how white responds after looking through black's plan.:s
Author:  Magicwand [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Super Meijin Tournament (interviews)
Harleqin wrote:
I think that cutting would have been fine, but the idea might have been that the far pincer would reduce the usefulness of Black's resulting strength (I have the impression that Gu Li's style is more on the grab-territory-then-shinogi side). However, for that I think that it would have been better to play this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . 2 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , .
$$ | . . . O 1 . 3 . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]


I think that this would not give Black so much thickness, but White also gets less territory.


i have to disagree on above diag.
white is in bad shape and need to play one more move.

this picture is better than your diag but really submissive..
therfore what guli played is better than both your and my diag.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . 2 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . X . . . , .
$$ | . . . O 1 . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]
Author:  ethanb [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Super Meijin Tournament (interviews)
kokomi wrote:
ethanb wrote:

1) In the lower left, after his three space low pincer he's stronger on the left side, and black's 3-4 stone to the right is open to approach from this direction, so I don't understand why he played this submissive answer to the taisha rather than cutting.


hmm...

[flash=]http://player.56.com/v_NTM2OTIzMjk.swf[/flash]

hmm, why this flash doesn't work...
I assume you are talking about the kosumi. In the video, he's talking about this from 08.43 until 17.00, with many variations. He first asked what's special for black to play taisha when white has played 3 space pincer. And then talked about black's plan in this case. He emphasised this is not a 'submissive', but is how white responds after looking through black's plan.:s


Well, that would be why I'm hesitant to critique the moves of a player who is one of the top three in the world. - like I said, I didn't understand. :)

Although I still don't - that flash video isn't loading for me. EDIT: reloaded the page, it works this time.

EDIT 2: Ok, so it looks like the upper right was a solid mistake - Lee Changho found a nice tesuji to deal with Gu Li's plan. But I still don't get the lower left. I see that black would have chosen the outside hane rather than the wedge, but I didn't see a path (other than when they explained why blocking at 3-3 was bad) that looked horrendous for white there. I guess Gu Li just didn't want to give away so much territory in the corner?
Author:  xed_over [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Super Meijin Tournament (interviews)
kokomi wrote:
hmm...

[flash=]http://player.56.com/v_NTM2OTIzMjk.swf[/flash]

hmm, why this flash doesn't work...

because the flash code has been moved:
Code:
$ curl http://player.56.com/v_NTM2OTIzMjk.swf

<html>
<head><title>301 Moved Permanently</title></head>
<body bgcolor="white">
<center><h1>301 Moved Permanently</h1></center>
<hr><center>nginx</center>
</body>
</html>
Author:  kokomi [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Super Meijin Tournament (interviews)
xed_over wrote:
kokomi wrote:
hmm...

[flash=]http://player.56.com/v_NTM2OTIzMjk.swf[/flash]

hmm, why this flash doesn't work...

because the flash code has been moved:
Code:
$ curl http://player.56.com/v_NTM2OTIzMjk.swf

<html>
<head><title>301 Moved Permanently</title></head>
<body bgcolor="white">
<center><h1>301 Moved Permanently</h1></center>
<hr><center>nginx</center>
</body>
</html>


eu, i wanted to embed it in the post like SodesuNe did in his journal.
Author:  Harleqin [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Super Meijin Tournament (interviews)
Magicwand wrote:
White is in bad shape and needs to play one more move.


Could you provide some hint as to what Black threatens? My diagram is a somewhat unusual or archaic joseki, but it has been played several times not too long ago, for example, by Park Jung-Sang in 2005 (although it appears more often in older games). I have never seen the keima.
Author:  Magicwand [ Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: New Super Meijin Tournament (interviews)
Harleqin wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
White is in bad shape and needs to play one more move.


Could you provide some hint as to what Black threatens? My diagram is a somewhat unusual or archaic joseki, but it has been played several times not too long ago, for example, by Park Jung-Sang in 2005 (although it appears more often in older games). I have never seen the keima.

to all go players who whats to improve:
whether you seen the keima shape or not i dont care. i am sure you can read why i am suggesting keima.
i really dont care if the professionals played such move before. it leaves cutting point aji and i think white's shape is bad so i dont like it.
why are people trying to copy professionals? many times they expriment with new shape and later conclude it to be suboptimal.
if you can not feel the weakness with your own skin you will never imporve. have your own opinion and do not accept the joseki just because it is written. many times i experiment with new shapes and josekies before i accept the the fact the shape is bad or good. i am thinking that is one of the reason why i improved faster than others.
Author:  Harleqin [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Super Meijin Tournament (interviews)
Well, just compare it to this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . a . . . . .
$$ | . . . , B X . . . .
$$ | . . . O O . O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ---------------------[/go]


The only difference is that :bc: is now at 'a'. Can this difference mean that the white stones are now weaker?
Author:  topazg [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 2:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: New Super Meijin Tournament (interviews)
Harleqin wrote:
Well, just compare it to this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . a . . . . .
$$ | . . . , B X . . . .
$$ | . . . O O . O . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ---------------------[/go]


The only difference is that :bc: is now at 'a'. Can this difference mean that the white stones are now weaker?


Also, White has a stone on the left edge. I think White's must be fine in this diagram, and Black's shape feels more acceptable. The cut at "a" if White pushes feels very hairy to me.
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/