In terms of the usage of "tewari", I've definitely seen it being used outside of joseki situations (usually in fights where a sequence is shown to be a transposed better result of another sequence, showing the other sequence to be a mistake) at least in Chinese commentaries. If the Chinese is happy enough to use tewari in these situations, I don't see why it can't be done in English :p

Ok, then put W8 in the lower right corner as a kakari and it's a good move for sure. Then 5 (in the reshuffled board) still looks bad (too small) and therefore 7 in the original would be bad too. Again, I invite anyone to use my algorithm on an example where it's obvious it does not work.

Somebody had better take Kobayashi Satoru aside and let him know he doesn't understand this stuff.
His book on tewari.

Theme 10 in chapter 3 where he states that tewari is helpful for fuseki as well as joseki.

Actually he introduces 'What is Tewari' at the very beginning of the book with a fuseki example (but it doesn't fit in one photo ).

He introduces tewari to show why we do not block at 2 (instead of 3) in the situation below.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Original sequence
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 8 2 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 0 . . . . . X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The tewari analysis starts with the pincer on the board instead of the right side star point. Playing at below would be a poor choice due to the position of

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Tewari
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 8 2 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . B . . . . . X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21

As should be clear now, powerful descriptions of the usage of tewari as concepts do not come from etymologists and word dictionaries but come from people describing or using the concepts.

Kobayashi's book concentrates on Jôseki, and on application of Jôseki.

Hopefully it is widely known that there are some "middle-game Jôseki" as well.

In his discussions of real games in the final chapter of his book, he uses specification (2) of John's definition, for judging influence, and territory. But even there, he remains connected mainly to Jôseki.

_________________
The really most difficult Go problem ever: https://igohatsuyoron120.de/index.htm
Igo Hatsuyōron #120 (really solved by KataGo)

But Black played play in response to in the original sequence, which is in the reshuffle. It does not make sense to move that White play elsewhere. One does not use tewari like a lawyer, looking for reasons to justify or attack a certain play.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Kobayashi is right. There is nothing about the tewari heuristic -- not algorithm, thank you -- that restricts its application to any size region of the board. It is a way of detecting inefficiency.

It may be easiest to apply to joseki, because the region is restricted and because there are generally accepted sequences for comparison, but those are practical matters. Broader application does not invalidate tewari.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Uh , of course? But what do you think the 'application of joseki' is? It is choosing the right joseki to fit the wider aspects of the position. You can be pedantic and insist that this is only about 'joseki' (although I think you must have to close your eyes for some of Kobayashi's diagrams in order to maintain your theory). Good luck with that. The only person you are hurting is yourself.

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21

@Bill: You are right, my alternation didn't make sense, but why is 8 bad in the re-shuffled board? It stabilizes the upper side for White and limits Black's corner which has become bullstrong with 5.

The answer is hidden in your statement above.

Why do you want to approach thickness ?

_________________
The really most difficult Go problem ever: https://igohatsuyoron120.de/index.htm
Igo Hatsuyōron #120 (really solved by KataGo)

To reduce the strong influence and to stabilize the upper white side. If Black plays at 8 it is territoy and a double wing structure. That is huge so early in the game. But I could be wrong, I am not such a strong player.

I can understand the "PARIS IN THE THE SPRING" kind of misread, but for the life of me I cannot understand the high frequency of misreads in this forum. Is it wilful?

I said "mainly joseki", Cassandra said "mainly", yet you change it to "only" joseki. On top of that, the Kobayashi quoted is also mainly about joseki, as observed by Cassandra, and that is implicit in Kobayashi's words cited ("Tewari plays a role ALSO in fuseki", i.e. joseki gets the main mention).

But this problem is widespread. I have no doubt I do it myself.

I think that I am weaker than you, but I would like to suppose that there are bigger points on the board than White / Black 8.

_________________
The really most difficult Go problem ever: https://igohatsuyoron120.de/index.htm
Igo Hatsuyōron #120 (really solved by KataGo)

To be fair, the way you made that statement made it appear as you think it does not apply to fuseki. "That's probably because tewari (dissection of moves, aka ishiwari) is not really intended for fuseki."

Pliers are not really intended for driving nails into the wall, but they can be used for this purpose, too.

_________________
The really most difficult Go problem ever: https://igohatsuyoron120.de/index.htm
Igo Hatsuyōron #120 (really solved by KataGo)

At this point in the opening, it is small. Compare, for instance, these diagrams.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B White approaches the top right
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . 6 . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B White approaches the bottom right
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . 6 . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Which do you prefer for White?

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Do you really think using tewari for fuseki is like driving nails into the wall with a plier?

I think the evidence is pretty clear from ez4u's book image: Kobayashi Satoru says that tewari is also useful in fuseki.

Why don't we leave it at that?

_________________
be immersed

I think a better analogy is something like this: "You can use a lens in a microscope, but it was really intended for use in a telescope."

Tewari is used to examine the efficiency of moves in a sequence. Whether it is applied to joseki or fuseki, it is the same kind of tool in either case.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

-- Tewari is a tool for analysing the relative efficiency of moves.
-- Its methodology is optimised for the usage in Jôseki.

This does not imply that it is excluded to find single use cases outside the field of Jôseki.

+ + + + + + + +

However, the less restricted its field of observation the larger the danger of widening the original methodology (imperceptibly, with the best of intentions).

This is my motivation to suggest finding / using another technical term, if one wants to have an efficiency-measurement-tool that has its main focus in the later stages of the game.

_________________
The really most difficult Go problem ever: https://igohatsuyoron120.de/index.htm
Igo Hatsuyōron #120 (really solved by KataGo)