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| How would you handle this pincer? http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10429 |
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| Author: | chef [ Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | How would you handle this pincer? |
Thanks to this thread (http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=7273) by lovelove (which rocks!), I tried playing the pincer joseki, the better way than what I was doing before, like this But what do you do when there's a stone on the star like this? My two thoughts are how would I handle that and also should I have even bothered doing a kakari between the two stone and maybe opt for the other side of the stone. The reason I ask is because I played this game. I won despite the beginning, but that pincer was UG-LEE!!! Actually the whole beginning was ugly |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
chef wrote: But what do you do when there's a stone on the star like this? Hi chef, it depends on the rest of the board. Locally, W's choices include (a), (b), (c), and others.In your game, you can consider jumping to 3-3 at R3 for  .In your game,  turning at H5 makes a powerful shape for B, and a kind of broken shape for you.
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| Author: | Hushfield [ Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How would you handle this pincer? |
Hi chef, The diagram you posted is a bit different from the in-game variant (the black stone already in place is one line further, at a in the diagram below). Concerning your options, I agree with EdLee that you can either choose between invading the corner at 3-3 or going for a double approach. In your game, the double approach seems more risky, because black already has a few stones in place, and will welcome complicated fights. There's something else, however. When I look at this diagram, I think black 2 is a bit of a mistake. Something like this would be a more severe way of attacking: Even with the stone at a in the game, I still think white got off the hook. Settling the stone quickly by invading the corner seems the best way to punish black for his lackluster attack. |
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| Author: | Uberdude [ Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How would you handle this pincer? |
As others said 3-3 is good to settle. Jump out is no good as the press is not effective as black already has that 4th line stone. See viewtopic.php?p=157576#p157576 for when jump is okay. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hi chef, for example: If W thinks a pincer in the  direction (say, )is useful for W, then W can jump out with  --for example, W already has a stone upper right corner. As always, we must look at the whole board to decide. |
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| Author: | chef [ Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How would you handle this pincer? |
I don't think I'd try a double approach at the moment, since I haven't a clue how to do it, but as far as how the board looked, the SGF I posted was the whole game up until that point. |
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| Author: | skydyr [ Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How would you handle this pincer? |
My immediate question is why white chose to approach from the inside instead of the outside for the initial corner approach in the game.  isn't some amazing wonder move, it's just a san-ren-sei like formation that wants another move to accomplish the same thing.
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| Author: | EdLee [ Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
skydyr wrote: My immediate question is why white chose to approach from the inside instead of the outside The usual suspects include:
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| Author: | chef [ Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How would you handle this pincer? |
skydyr wrote: My immediate question is why white chose to approach from the inside instead of the outside for the initial corner approach in the game. isn't some amazing wonder move, it's just a san-ren-sei like formation that wants another move to accomplish the same thing.Would that be considered a bad move? My thoughts are that giving this wall to your opponent would be a difficult thing to deal with. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
chef wrote: Hi chef, the above  is not very good, either -- the 2-space-2-space shape is thin and leaves lots of aji for W.Just the keima reply is probably a better combination with the  and  stones:Also, in your game, B did not have the middle star point, as Hushfield already pointed out: chef wrote: Would that be considered a bad move?  is very normal, and a good move.chef wrote: My thoughts are that giving this wall to your opponent would be a difficult thing to deal with. First misconception: That's not a wall.What would be very beneficial for you is tons of experience: play in lots of games as W(and experience as B) to find out what actually happens; review, rinse and repeat. 
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| Author: | schawipp [ Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How would you handle this pincer? |
In the game, b has a nice move at  to connect with his two center stones.
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| Author: | Unusedname [ Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How would you handle this pincer? |
chef wrote: I don't think I'd try a double approach at the moment, since I haven't a clue how to do it, but as far as how the board looked, the SGF I posted was the whole game up until that point. I used to feel this way too! But it ended up being pretty simple (So far) It usually results with me getting the corner without being sealed in. And then I have aji for later on the other side. |
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