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| 3-3 invasion after a kick http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=11230 |
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| Author: | oca [ Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | 3-3 invasion after a kick |
Hello, [edit]In endgame,[/edit], this  seems to be a common move (at least in handicap games). does anybody has a few documentation on this ? is there a sensei page for that situation ?I think a or b are fine for black, but I would like to study that position a bit more... so any comments welcome ! |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Sat Dec 20, 2014 2:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
oca wrote: [edit]In endgame,[/edit], this Hi oca, usually seems to be a common move happens much earlier than the endgame. 
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| Author: | RBerenguel [ Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:05 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 3-3 invasion after a kick |
http://senseis.xmp.net/?AllAbout33Point ... 2FDiagrams Edit, here better: http://senseis.xmp.net/?4464Enclosure33Invasion#toc5 |
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| Author: | oca [ Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 3-3 invasion after a kick |
RBerenguel wrote: http://senseis.xmp.net/?AllAbout33PointInvasion%2FDiagrams Edit, here better: http://senseis.xmp.net/?4464Enclosure33Invasion#toc5 Hi RBerenguel, Thank you, exactly what I was looking for ! EdLee wrote: oca wrote: [edit]In endgame,[/edit], this Hi oca, usually seems to be a common move happens much earlier than the endgame. Hi Edlee, oh... ok... I'm still a bit confused with what is an endgame move and what is played more early then the endgame... this would be more endgame is it ? |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hi oca, yes, and not only endgame, but aji keshi.
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| Author: | RBerenguel [ Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
EdLee wrote: Hi oca, yes, and not only endgame, but aji keshi. A voice in my head screams clamp clamp clamp, but I can't really find a conscious way to do it |
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| Author: | oca [ Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
EdLee wrote: Hi oca, yes, and not only endgame, but aji keshi.  I was thinking that was a good move... mainly because black cannot block at aSo I think that would endup like this which looks not that bad to me... Does black get too much here ? |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
RBerenguel wrote: clamp clamp clamp Also the peep at 3-3.
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| Author: | EdLee [ Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
oca wrote: black cannot block at a Why not ?
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| Author: | oca [ Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
EdLee wrote: oca wrote: black cannot block at a Why not ?Maybe that would endup like that ... (I saw the main line in a book) |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hi oca, yes, B has those options. But if W does not hane on the first line, W has even more options in the corner. So if W does the first line hane too early and gets the result in your second diagram in post 7, W fixes all of B's weakness for B, and removes all of W's options in the corner -- thus, aji keshi. |
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| Author: | oca [ Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 3-3 invasion after a kick |
ok thank you Edlee, I will explore the 3-3 invasion in that situation too. |
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| Author: | paK0 [ Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:11 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: 3-3 invasion after a kick | ||
RBerenguel wrote: http://senseis.xmp.net/?AllAbout33PointInvasion%2FDiagrams Edit, here better: http://senseis.xmp.net/?4464Enclosure33Invasion#toc5 I looked at that, but what about this variation? I really can't find a satisfying variation for black
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| Author: | RBerenguel [ Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 3-3 invasion after a kick |
paK0 wrote: RBerenguel wrote: http://senseis.xmp.net/?AllAbout33PointInvasion%2FDiagrams Edit, here better: http://senseis.xmp.net/?4464Enclosure33Invasion#toc5 I looked at that, but what about this variation? I really can't find a satisfying variation for black As it is, atari on the outside, if W lives, fine, ponnuki on the outside. And I doubt it lives anyway |
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| Author: | paK0 [ Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 3-3 invasion after a kick |
Thanks, I thought white was alive, so it seemed bad for black, since R4 was played with the intention of getting some points in the corner. |
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| Author: | oca [ Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 3-3 invasion after a kick |
Hi all, I'm still with that position : I saw in a book the following variation : I'm ok with white being alive after  but what if black play  like that :what would be white option here...should I play at 'a'... it's hard for me to find good continuations.... I'm a bit stuck with that one... Any help welcome.... |
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| Author: | Uberdude [ Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 3-3 invasion after a kick |
Yes, if black should have defended at a, then white playing there is a good idea. Black has so many cuts on the outside (s7, q7) he can't keep white contained. In fact black can even die himself in the corner now. |
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| Author: | Bill Spight [ Wed Jan 21, 2015 3:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 3-3 invasion after a kick |
paK0 wrote: RBerenguel wrote: http://senseis.xmp.net/?AllAbout33PointInvasion%2FDiagrams Edit, here better: http://senseis.xmp.net/?4464Enclosure33Invasion#toc5 I looked at that, but what about this variation? I really can't find a satisfying variation for black
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