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| Punishing a joseki error -- 4-4 low approach 1-space pincer http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2544 |
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| Author: | jdl [ Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Punishing a joseki error -- 4-4 low approach 1-space pincer |
I have two questions. 1. B1 is a mistake, right? It certainly looks like one to me. 2. What should white be considering here as far as punishing this mistake? |
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| Author: | HermanHiddema [ Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Punishing a joseki error -- 4-4 low approach 1-space pin |
1) Yes. Black cannot split, so this wedge will just make white stronger, without appreciable gain for black. Normally, I'd expect the one point jump to D6 from black. 2) Keep black split, and focus on the outside, as black can build a moyo on the left if you focus on taking territory. I'd expect the following: Next, I'd look at attacking black on the lower side, with a move like a. Other moves to keep in mind are the slide at b for stability and the capping play at c to attack. White can lean on the left side, with something like the sequence d-e-f-g-h, to set up a large scale attack, but at the cost of stabilizing black's corner and side, so that is best kept in reserve, IMO. |
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| Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Punishing a joseki error -- 4-4 low approach 1-space pin |
It seems that  is forced. There is an option for  . It turns out no better for black:...and  is a ladder.BTW, note that Herman and I both placed  to the left ( it is closer to the more valuable corner ) and  high at E5 rather than low at E3 ( it is easier to take E5 directly and try to control E3 because it can be chased to the side )
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| Author: | daniel_the_smith [ Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Punishing a joseki error -- 4-4 low approach 1-space pin |
jdl wrote: 2. What should white be considering here as far as punishing this mistake? I think as long as your two white stones end up connected and/or you catch a black stone in a ladder you've punished this. |
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| Author: | gowan [ Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Punishing a joseki error -- 4-4 low approach 1-space pin |
I don't like using the word "punished" because it implies the opponent's position collapses. That's almost the case here but really it is better to think "How can I take advantage of this mistake" |
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| Author: | HermanHiddema [ Wed Dec 08, 2010 6:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Punishing a joseki error -- 4-4 low approach 1-space pin |
Joaz Banbeck wrote: BTW, note that Herman and I both placed to the left ( it is closer to the more valuable corner ) and high at E5 rather than low at E3 ( it is easier to take E5 directly and try to control E3 because it can be chased to the side )I think that, considering basic principles, this is the primary lesson to take away from this. I would've, BTW, stretched Joaz's  to the left (3-3) instead of downwards, to take sente, but that is also because I have a very fast and thin style, and like to take sente a lot 
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| Author: | daniel_the_smith [ Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Punishing a joseki error -- 4-4 low approach 1-space pin |
gowan wrote: I don't like using the word "punished" because it implies the opponent's position collapses. That's almost the case here but really it is better to think "How can I take advantage of this mistake" Oh, interesting-- to me, "punished" just means you've gained an appropriate advantage from your opponent's mistake... |
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| Author: | jdl [ Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Punishing a joseki error -- 4-4 low approach 1-space pin |
daniel_the_smith wrote: gowan wrote: I don't like using the word "punished" because it implies the opponent's position collapses. That's almost the case here but really it is better to think "How can I take advantage of this mistake" Oh, interesting-- to me, "punished" just means you've gained an appropriate advantage from your opponent's mistake... That's how I meant it. "Gain a better result than what you'd get from the joseki." I can see how it can be misinterpreted though. Thank you to everyone for your answers. |
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| Author: | judicata [ Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Punishing a joseki error -- 4-4 low approach 1-space pin |
daniel_the_smith wrote: gowan wrote: I don't like using the word "punished" because it implies the opponent's position collapses. That's almost the case here but really it is better to think "How can I take advantage of this mistake" Oh, interesting-- to me, "punished" just means you've gained an appropriate advantage from your opponent's mistake... Me too, but I think daniel's point is valid. Sometimes, if someone thinks an opponents move is crazy or incorrect, they think that the opponent's position must therefore collapse. I'd still use the word "punish," but try to make sure it is understood as intended. |
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| Author: | Bill Spight [ Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Punishing a joseki error -- 4-4 low approach 1-space pin |
HermanHiddema wrote: Joaz Banbeck wrote: BTW, note that Herman and I both placed to the left ( it is closer to the more valuable corner ) and high at E5 rather than low at E3 ( it is easier to take E5 directly and try to control E3 because it can be chased to the side )I think that, considering basic principles, this is the primary lesson to take away from this. I would've, BTW, stretched Joaz's to the left (3-3) instead of downwards, to take sente, but that is also because I have a very fast and thin style, and like to take sente a lot Here is another thought. However, Black still has aji in the corner, like a play at a.  b is more solid than , but not as good as Joaz's line. With the bad aji, I do not think that I would tenuki, and that makes Joaz's line better, IMO.
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| Author: | Magicwand [ Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Punishing a joseki error -- 4-4 low approach 1-space pin |
| Author: | Bill Spight [ Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Punishing a joseki error -- 4-4 low approach 1-space pin |
If  -  ,  -  leans on the Black corner in preparation for the pincer at  . I like White.
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