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Late valentine http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3288	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Bill Spight [ Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Late valentine
One of my little darlin's Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc White to play and win $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| . O X . X O O \| $$ \| O X X . X . . \| $$ \| O X . X . X . \| $$ \| O X X . X X . \| $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` No komi. Enjoy!

Author:	jts [ Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:38 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Late valentine
Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc Variation 1a $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| . O X 5 X O O \| $$ \| O X X 6 X 3 4 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| . 8 . . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` retakes, fills, -1 Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc Variation 1b $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| 9 O X 5 X O O \| $$ \| O X X 0 X 3 4 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| . 7 8 . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` fills, fills, -1 Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc Variation 2a $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| . O X 5 X O O \| $$ \| O X X . X 2 3 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 4 \| $$ \| . 6 . . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` -1 Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc Variation 2b $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| 7 O X 4 X O O \| $$ \| O X X . X 2 3 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 5 \| $$ \| . 8 . . . 6 . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` -2

Author:	Jordus [ Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Late valentine
Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc White to play and win $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| 9 O X 7 X O O \| $$ \| O X X . X . 3 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| 4 5 6 . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` @ and @ 1 captured each. White wins by 2... edit... doesn't work if black plays at first.... in that case a ko at would be more in whites favor... but I am not sure black would play into the ko.... edit I take that back... at first leaves white winning plus 1?

Author:	Magicwand [ Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Late valentine
so simple but tricky. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc White to play and win $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| . O X 3 X O O \| $$ \| O X X 4 X . 5 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| . 6 . . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc White to play and win $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| 9 O X 3 X O O \| $$ \| O X X 6 X 5 4 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| . 7 8 . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]`

Author:	Bill Spight [ Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Late valentine
Magicwand wrote: so simple but tricky. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc White to play and win $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| . O X 3 X O O \| $$ \| O X X 4 X . 5 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| . 6 . . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc White to play and win $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| 9 O X 3 X O O \| $$ \| O X X 6 X 5 4 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| . 7 8 . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` That's how I like 'em.

Author:	Chew Terr [ Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Late valentine
Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc White to play and win $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| 9 O X 3 X O O \| $$ \| O X X 7 X 5 4 \| $$ \| O X . X 8 X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| . 6 . . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` 10 at 1 Unless I'm wrong, this is 9-8, white's favor.

Author:	Bill Spight [ Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Late valentine
jts wrote: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc Variation 1a $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| . O X 5 X O O \| $$ \| O X X 6 X 3 4 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| . 8 . . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` retakes, fills, -1 Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc Variation 1b $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| 9 O X 5 X O O \| $$ \| O X X 0 X 3 4 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| . 7 8 . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` fills, fills, -1 Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc Variation 2a $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| . O X 5 X O O \| $$ \| O X X . X 2 3 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 4 \| $$ \| . 6 . . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` -1 Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc Variation 2b $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| 7 O X 4 X O O \| $$ \| O X X . X 2 3 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 5 \| $$ \| . 8 . . . 6 . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` -2 Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| . O X 4 X O O \| $$ \| O X X . X 3 . \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]`

Author:	Bill Spight [ Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Late valentine
Chew Terr wrote: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc White to play and win $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| 9 O X 3 X O O \| $$ \| O X X 7 X 5 4 \| $$ \| O X . X 8 X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| . 6 . . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` 10 at 1 Unless I'm wrong, this is 9-8, white's favor. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc White to play and win $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| . O X 3 X O O \| $$ \| O X X 6 X 5 4 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]`

Author:	Bill Spight [ Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Late valentine
Jordus wrote: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc White to play and win $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| 9 O X 7 X O O \| $$ \| O X X . X . 3 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| 4 5 6 . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` @ and @ 1 captured each. White wins by 2... edit... doesn't work if black plays at first.... in that case a ko at would be more in whites favor... but I am not sure black would play into the ko.... edit I take that back... at first leaves white winning plus 1? Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc White to play and win $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| . O X 4 X O O \| $$ \| O X X . X . 3 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]`

Author:	Chew Terr [ Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Late valentine
Bill Spight wrote: Chew Terr wrote: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc White to play and win $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| 9 O X 3 X O O \| $$ \| O X X 7 X 5 4 \| $$ \| O X . X 8 X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| . 6 . . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` 10 at 1 Unless I'm wrong, this is 9-8, white's favor. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc White to play and win $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| . O X 3 X O O \| $$ \| O X X 6 X 5 4 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc White to play and win $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| 9 O X 3 X O O \| $$ \| O X X 6 X 5 4 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| 0 7 8 . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` Ah. Is this it, then? Each player wins one ko, and I think that leaves white one ahead. 10-9, I think?

Author:	jts [ Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Late valentine
Bill Spight wrote: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| . O X 4 X O O \| $$ \| O X X . X 3 . \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc Ouch! $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| 7 O X 4 X O O \| $$ \| O X X . X 3 . \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| . 5 6 . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc Second try: -1 $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| . O X 3 X O O \| $$ \| O X X . X 4 5 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| . 6 . . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc Still -1 ( and are miai) $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| 9 O X 3 X O O \| $$ \| O X X 6 X 5 4 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| . 7 8 . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` Did I miss anything this time?

Author:	snorri [ Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Late valentine
Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc W+1 $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| 7 O X 3 X O O \| $$ \| O X X . X 4 5 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| . 6 . . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` After , there seem to be a number of ways black can play that result in W+1 or worse for black. I could show one with more fighting spirit, but what's the point? This is a sad result. I would be happy to see a happier way for black.

Author:	Bill Spight [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Late valentine
Simple and tricky, as MagicWand says. Tricky because few people have seen the key combination, which gains, ahem, 7/12 of a point. Congratulations to the solvers. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc White to play and win $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| . O X 3 X O O \| $$ \| O X X . X . . \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` Usually is part of a combination with a connection along the edge that gains 1/2 pt. Here it is part of a combination with , which gains 7/12 of a point. White wins by 1 pt. The rest is miai. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc Stubborn resistance $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| 9 O X O X O O \| $$ \| O X X 6 X 5 4 \| $$ \| O X . X . X W \| $$ \| O X X . X X X \| $$ \| . 7 8 . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` offers the most stubborn resistance by capturing a stone. The point of the exercise is that forces , so that the combination, - , gains only 1/3 pt. Now the combination, - , gains 1/3 pt. for White. The players share the two open kos. White still wins by 1 pt. The original position has an overall count of -5/12 (from Black's point of view). After - the count is -1, for a White win. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc Failure $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| 7 O X 1 B O O \| $$ \| O X X 9 B 2 3 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 4 \| $$ \| O X X . X X . \| $$ \| 8 5 6 . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` fills the ko. The right and center look like a miai pair, each of which gains 1/2 pt. However, they interact because of the threat against the stones in the previous diagram. If White makes the mistake of playing them as miai ( - ), he loses 1/12 pt., for a count of -1/3. Then each of - gains 1/3 pt., so that the count remains -1/3. Now White has no ko threat, but must fill a dame with . (Note that was necessary to prevent from becoming a ko threat.) Then fills the ko to gain 1/3 pt. for jigo. Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Bc Black to play $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| . O X 1 X O O \| $$ \| O X X . X . 4 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 2 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 3 \| $$ \| . 5 . . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` gains 7/12, for a count of 1/6. Now the combination, - , gains 1/2, for a count of -1/3. Finally, gains 1/3, for jigo.

Author:	mw42 [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Late valentine
W+1, late to the parade, I know. [sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2] RU[Japanese]SZ[7]KM[0.00] GN[]DT[2011-02-24]PC[http://lifein19x19.com/]AW[bb][cb][db][eb][fb][bc][fc][gc][ad][ae][af]AB[cc][ec][bd][cd][ed][be][de][fe][bf][cf][ef][ff]C[Diagram from http://lifein19x19.com/ ]PL[W] (;) (;W[ge] ;B[gf] ;W[dc] (;B[gd] ;W[fd] ;B[dd] ;W[bg] ;B[cg] ;W[ac] ;B[ge] ;W[ag]TW[aa][ba][ca][da][ea][fa][ga][ab][gb]TB[ce][ee][df][dg][eg][fg][gg]) (;B[fd] ;W[gd] ;B[ag] ;W[ac] ;B[bg]TW[aa][ba][ca][da][ea][fa][ga][ab][gb]TB[ce][ee][df][cg][dg][eg][fg][gg])))[/sgf-full]

Author:	Phelan [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Late valentine
Best I can do: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$Wc A tie? $$ --------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . \| $$ \| . O O O O O . \| $$ \| 5 O X 4 X O O \| $$ \| O X X . X . 3 \| $$ \| O X . X . X 1 \| $$ \| O X X . X X 2 \| $$ \| . 6 . . . . . \| $$ ---------------[/go]` Edit after looking at the answers: Ah. I thought about the kos briefly, but didn't see the winning line.

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