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When you play through pro games for study, how do you do it?
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Author:  kirkmc [ Sat May 01, 2010 6:28 am ]
Post subject:  When you play through pro games for study, how do you do it?
Just out of curiosity. Answer as many as you want.
Author:  GoCat [ Sat May 01, 2010 7:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When you play through pro games for study, how do you do
When I first read the thread title, "how do you do it", I immediately thought more broadly than "what style of tool do you use". But, as for the tool, I prefer a board and stones, for a couple reasons. First, it's the only chance I get to use my floor board. (on the rare occasion that I have a Go-playing visitor, I don't expect them to sit on the floor with me for a game.) And I like the tactile part of playing with stones, more than a mouse.

As for how I do it: generally I am playing from a book or magazine with commentary, so I go through and try to understand the comments being made. This tends to distract my attention as I play the moves -- my focus will be more on the diagram I am following, rather than the board, while the moves unfold. So I also memorize as I go. That is, I might play through the first N moves, then clear the board and replay those stones from memory. Now, my attention is on the board, so I'm watching the flow of the moves. After I've replayed the N stones, I'll play another batch of moves from the book, and again clear the board.

Doing this, I usually get up to about a hundred moves in my head in about 4 to 8 steps. After that, some games I continue this way; some I just play from the book; some I don't continue.

And no, the memory doesn't persist much. I can recreate the game the next day, but not much more than that, and certainly studying a different game wipes out earlier ones. Ah, the pleasures of old age! (Okay, late middle age, at least.)

Having said all that, there are times when I play on a computer. This is usually when I'm hanging out somewhere without the board (airport, hotel, etc), and have no choice. I usually pick a game by Yi Changho and play through, even though i don't have commentary.
Author:  daal [ Sat May 01, 2010 10:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When you play through pro games for study, how do you do
Lately, I've been looking for pro games with josekis I'm interested in, so that while trying to memorize the game, I learn the joseki too. I usually play through the game twice on the computer, trying my best to make sense of the moves, and as John Fairbairn has suggested, to look for turning points, i.e., where someone gives up sente. Then I play through the game guessing the moves on the simplified go scorer (from GoGod)or on Kombilo in guess mode. After that, I try to play it out on a board.
Author:  fwiffo [ Sat May 01, 2010 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When you play through pro games for study, how do you do
I don't play many games over a real board, not sure what good it would do to put games I study on a real board.
Author:  kirkmc [ Sat May 01, 2010 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When you play through pro games for study, how do you do
fwiffo wrote:
I don't play many games over a real board, not sure what good it would do to put games I study on a real board.


I find it makes me go slower, pay more attention to the moves. And I like looking at stones on a board from time to time.
Author:  Solomon [ Sat May 01, 2010 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When you play through pro games for study, how do you do
When I have time, I go over pro games on the computer, twice for each game following Jang Bi (gentlerain)'s advice to go through a game twice, once analyzing one side's moves and the second time for the other. After going through the game twice, I go through it once more with commentary (if it's supplied, but usually I check to see if the game is commentated first before going to analyze it), usually while going over the winner's side, but sometimes my preference for a particular player influences my decision.

I give myself some time (usually the next opportunity I get free time) and then go over it one more time with a printout. This time though I go over it on my real board. I go through the analysis on the computer prior to going over it on a real board because it not only keeps games in my memory for a long period of time, but also has me spend much less time searching for move numbers on the printout, which is irritating.
Author:  karaklis [ Sat May 01, 2010 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When you play through pro games for study, how do you do
I use a magnetic board to replay the games (currently from "Invincible"). That allows me to study these games in my favorite place (I won't tell what it is :mrgreen: ) while relaxing. I can play out sequences to find out about the turnout of alternative moves.
Author:  Biondy [ Sun May 02, 2010 1:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When you play through pro games for study, how do you do
mostly on computer. I replay games from go4go and copy paste each move to Multigo :D

but I sometimes play in real board also (not often though)
Author:  Solomon [ Sun May 02, 2010 4:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When you play through pro games for study, how do you do
Helel wrote:
Araban wrote:
also has me spend much less time searching for move numbers on the printout, which is irritating.


Do like I sometimes do: Make printouts with one diagram for each stone, six diagrams on each page.
This will also give the possibility to write comments in the margin, ( wide margins is a very important feature, look at Fermat ),
and it makes the board redundant if you want to read it in bed, or in your favourite place. ;-)

Last but not least it will provide a great opportunity to feel guilty about wasting trees. :twisted:

If I were to go over a 300-move game (which is somewhat lengthy, but certainly not unusual), that would be 50 pages :shock:. I think I'd be too bothered by printing out that much paper to concentrate on the pro game.
Author:  kirkmc [ Sun May 02, 2010 4:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When you play through pro games for study, how do you do
Araban wrote:
If I were to go over a 300-move game (which is somewhat lengthy, but certainly not unusual), that would be 50 pages :shock:. I think I'd be too bothered by printing out that much paper to concentrate on the pro game.


Agreed. iPad with SmartGo Kifu FTW.
Author:  Harleqin [ Sun May 02, 2010 6:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When you play through pro games for study, how do you do
Finding the next move in a 50- or 100-move-per-diagram kifu is part of the experience. It shows how well you have understood the flow of the game.

If you have a point in a game where you do not find the next move quickly, you should study this carefully, since it seems that you have something to learn there.
Author:  ketchup [ Sun May 02, 2010 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When you play through pro games for study, how do you do
In my head, missing 99% of the subtleties of the game and forgetting half the moves. yay
Author:  Phelan [ Sun May 02, 2010 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When you play through pro games for study, how do you do
I voted "on a board". I like to get a feel for the game, and I don't get that replaying them on a computer.
Author:  xed_over [ Tue May 04, 2010 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When you play through pro games for study, how do you do
fwiffo wrote:
I don't play many games over a real board, not sure what good it would do to put games I study on a real board.

I've heard it said that we learn more when we combine our different senses in the process. We retain only so much of what we see and hear, but if we combine that touch, we retain even more (and I'm not just talking about memorizing either)

So playing out a pro game from a printed record... we force ourselves to think about where the next move should be in order to find it on the paper. We can see the patterns developing on the board, and the physical interaction just helps our brain tie it all together.

If you've never tried it... you should at least give it a shot once or twice :)

I might take on Sol...er...araban's suggestion of going over the record on the computer a time or two first to help make it easier to find the next move. I don't usually do that myself, but I can see where that might make it quicker and easier.
Author:  Rafa [ Tue May 04, 2010 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When you play through pro games for study, how do you do
I chose the "on the computer" option, since i dont have a board myself yet, i tend to open panda glgo twice(one with the game the other for replaying) then i replay the game paying attention to the commentary and trying to memorize the move and why did it was made.
Author:  Tengen [ Tue May 04, 2010 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When you play through pro games for study, how do you do
I prefer using a real board. When I used to memorize games, I always played them out on a real board. On the computer, it's too tempting to get "clicky" if I'm feeling a little tired, so I often don't give the proper thought to each move.
Author:  Marcus [ Wed May 05, 2010 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When you play through pro games for study, how do you do
Oh, uhhh ... maybe I should start studying pro games?

Yeah, I've never done more than browse a pro game SGF. I'm not the best at this whole "studying" thing ... probably why my rank goes up so slowly.
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