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fuseki question - tight pincer follow up http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4257 |
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Author: | perceval [ Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:05 am ] |
Post subject: | fuseki question - tight pincer follow up |
Hi, i just played a game when my opponent played a tight pincer on my approach, then (diqg is clearer)then approqch my hoshi stone: i thought this approach worked really well with the pincer stone: if i extend on the right its just the good distance: if i play the low pincer myself :Bc: against work well: In the end i played a high pincer (see below), no idea about the joseki here, was it a good idea ?? was the sequence played ok ? (ie did i blocked on the good side, was ![]() then i played ![]() thanks for your ideas ![]() |
Author: | Kirby [ Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:47 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: fuseki question - tight pincer follow up |
He might get a bit of a moyo by playing as you suggest, but you can remember that you are getting solid points. Moyos can be reduced to a lower number of points than they appear. If you don't want him to get a moyo, then consider another move (eg. jumping out) instead of diving into the 3-3. |
Author: | pwaldron [ Fri Jul 15, 2011 11:15 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: fuseki question - tight pincer follow up |
As Kirby says, you are getting solid points too. Count it up and you'll see black has a claim on about 25 points. You have 20'ish points in your two corners and you have sente. There's still scope for action in black's area, but things are about even right now. Just keep playing a good game. |
Author: | HermanHiddema [ Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: fuseki question - tight pincer follow up |
Some thoughts: You reasoning reeks of jealousy. You are jealous of black getting something at the bottom, even though you're getting two corners. Try to ban jealousy from your game! It is one of the great amateur weaknesses, IMO. Given the low strong position of the ![]() ![]() Lets look at some diagrams: The low pincer would be a mistake: This is exactly what black wants. White is losing this game fast. The game pincer is also wrong: But ![]() ![]() |
Author: | Solomon [ Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:21 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: fuseki question - tight pincer follow up |
This is fine for you (and for Black; it's fair). |
Author: | Chew Terr [ Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: fuseki question - tight pincer follow up |
A followup question: How about the attachment here. Aiming for either of these joseki. I have a hard time telling when black is overcondensed by this sort of thing and when it's ideal for him. Since taking the corner is good enough to let black build a framework, is this still good, or is it giving too much away? |
Author: | gogameguru [ Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:21 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: fuseki question - tight pincer follow up |
Here white can still invade at 'a' later. I won't repeat an explanation because Logan already explained it well recently in this thread: viewtopic.php?p=68958#p68958 If black plays 'b' as you suggested white also has a number of ways to invade, as Herman has pointed out. For that reason black will also consider playing like this: White can play moves like 'a' (above) to reduce black's position later, so there's no reason to be jealous. There are openings where white even sets out to make black create this sort of position and cause uncertainty. Now black isn't sure about how to play 7 - 'a' or 'b'?. (if black plays 'b' white might play 'c' next. So in other words, this opening is fine for white. Regarding Chew Terr's question: If this is the plan, black 4 could be at 'a' (above) (a sacrificing tactic to make black even more over concentrated on the bottom). The reason why white might prefer not to do this here is because of the potential invasion later (after white just played 'b'). And if black chooses not to allow the invasion with the low move (at 'a' in the earlier diagrams) black is still slightly over-concentrated. If the rest of the board supports it, this sacrifice could be a great opening strategy. Just try not to use over-concentration strategies too often/enthusiastically because sometimes you're erasing a future invasion, which helps the opponent's difficult position improve slightly. I still prefer this result for white though, it just takes some of the subtlety out of the position by settling everything locally. |
Author: | perceval [ Wed Jul 20, 2011 4:53 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: fuseki question - tight pincer follow up |
Thanks a bunch for the very detailled answers. i thought i was getting better at controlling kyuish greed ![]() But maybe this greed comes from the lack of redction skill i have: i would not havwe tought of the various reduction technique you mentionned. i can count and realize that the exchange is fair, but to me B formation would be easier to grow. i see thats not the case thanks again you answered with details i dint even know i should ask |
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