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| Recent 9x9 game http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4675 |
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| Author: | HermanHiddema [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Recent 9x9 game |
White just played the marked move, taking the last dame. No prisoners were made during the game. Assuming 0.5 komi for white, what is the result of the game? |
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| Author: | daal [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recent 9x9 game |
Is this a trick question? |
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| Author: | p2501 [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recent 9x9 game |
HermanHiddema wrote: White just played the marked move, taking the last dame. No prisoners were made during the game. Assuming 0.5 komi for white, what is the result of the game? Probably stupid question, but where is my reading wrong? Please educate 
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| Author: | HermanHiddema [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recent 9x9 game |
daal wrote: Is this a trick question? |
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| Author: | emeraldemon [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recent 9x9 game |
| Author: | HermanHiddema [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recent 9x9 game |
p2501 wrote: HermanHiddema wrote: White just played the marked move, taking the last dame. No prisoners were made during the game. Assuming 0.5 komi for white, what is the result of the game? Probably stupid question, but where is my reading wrong? Please educate |
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| Author: | jts [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recent 9x9 game |
| Author: | daal [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recent 9x9 game |
HermanHiddema wrote: daal wrote: Is this a trick question? oops. blitz posting. bad habit. |
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| Author: | HermanHiddema [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recent 9x9 game |
jts wrote: |
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| Author: | Solomon [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recent 9x9 game |
Doesn't it depend on which rules you're using? |
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| Author: | daniel_the_smith [ Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recent 9x9 game |
HermanHiddema wrote: A data point for you: it took me a only few seconds to find the tesuji, but the way you posted it was still a big hint that there was a tesuji to be found. Anyway, I'm still quite sure I would have found it in a game. (to make it more subtle, you could have posted, say, 3 9x9 endgames for counting, only one of them having a tesuji  )
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| Author: | gowan [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recent 9x9 game |
The original post asks for the "result" of the game. My first thought was that the game play was finished and only counting the score remained because if moves can still be played the game isn't over and there is no "result". Then I realized that Herman couldn't have meant that it was a half-point win for White and I found the tesuji. |
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| Author: | HermanHiddema [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recent 9x9 game |
Well, I guess there isn't really a good way to post this kind of thing without immediately setting off everyone's alarm bells.  Perhaps, as daniel_the_smith suggested, posting it as part of some sort of series would allow it to slip under people's radars. In the game, my opponent didn't spot it, and passed. Although I don't know how strong he is exactly, it cannot be too weak, given the fact that he can get this result against a 4d.
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| Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recent 9x9 game |
If black counts and realizes he will lose by half a point if he defends, I would argue that it makes more sense for black to pass and hope white doesn't realize black's weakness than to defend and lose for sure. |
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| Author: | emeraldemon [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recent 9x9 game |
Dusk Eagle wrote: If black counts and realizes he will lose by half a point if he defends, I would argue that it makes more sense for black to pass and hope white doesn't realize black's weakness than to defend and lose for sure. Not sure I agree with this. There is something nice about finishing a close game. Although the result is technically the same, I think there's a quality difference between a game I lost by one point, and a game I had to resign because I was hoping my opponent would make a mistake. |
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| Author: | hyperpape [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recent 9x9 game |
I don't know how to argue against someone who disagrees, but if I see that I need a move, I would defend. Doing the opposite seems underhanded. |
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| Author: | HermanHiddema [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recent 9x9 game |
In the actual game, komi was 6.5, so the issue does not arise But apart from that, I wonder, how many of you spotted the ko? 
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| Author: | jts [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recent 9x9 game |
| Author: | entropi [ Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recent 9x9 game |
I spotted the weakness when I saw the position but did not see the ko. But apart from that. This thread provides a potential for a nice discussion relating to the game's philosophy. - DuskEagle-Helel camp thinks that black should pass and hope white does not see the tesuji. - emeraldemon thinks that black should protect even if it means a .5 points loss. I for myself am closer to emeraldemon. I don't think protecting and losing by 0.5 it is stupid or cowardly. It's a matter of how you approach the game. I think I would neither pass, nor protect. I would resign immediately (unless I have the slightest doubt I miscounted or misread something). Currently in one of my games in DGS I just spotted a tesuji for my opponent that surely wins the game. Regardless of whether my opponent spots it or not, my next move will be a resign. If server allowed it, I would resign without waiting for my opponent's move. I wonder what is the majorities opinion about that. Worth making a poll but too lazy right now 
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| Author: | HermanHiddema [ Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Recent 9x9 game |
jts wrote: |
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descends and the ko is on the other side. But this is an unwinnable double ko for B, right? Is there a better one?