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Footsweep shape question. http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=7382 |
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Author: | peppernut [ Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:58 am ] |
Post subject: | Footsweep shape question. |
I have a local shape question after a footsweep. We can come to the shape where we have a head-of-two situation, but white has a kosumi already on the board: If it were white to move, the hane at the triangled point is the shape move. Black's hane would be vulgar, so I think black can play at the triangle square himself, or make a 1 point jump. Regardless which is better - black "owes" a move here for local shape. What happens if black already has the following marked stone: It seems like black can just tenuki here. But then ![]() ![]() Instead if Black shouldn't tenuki, a 1 point jump seems right. but it's still kind of overconcentrated, and the footsweep becomes sente. It makes me wonder why I don't see more of these footsweeps after Black plays the original 3rd line move to threaten White's side. Intuitively I feel like I am missing something, but I can't see it. |
Author: | lovelove [ Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:21 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Footsweep shape question. |
White's hane is not sente and is also a bad exchange. Black's response is not in a bad shape, it is a very solid shape. White needs to extend, or black's atari at white's extension point will be painful. Black usually don't play this way if there is no helping stone around for white. Marked points on the next diagram are black's usual response for the footsweep. |
Author: | lovelove [ Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:30 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Footsweep shape question. |
Footsweep usually appears with the Chinese fuseki. W L17 stone prevents black responding around "a" for the footsweep. |
Author: | ez4u [ Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:51 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Footsweep shape question. |
A couple of pro cases. As always, YMMV. ![]() |
Author: | peppernut [ Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:23 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Footsweep shape question. |
Thanks, this is interesting. Really helpful to see that Black's shape isn't overconcentrated, and white needs an extra move there at the end. I wasn't clear I think about the original sweep. In the game that it happened, I had the corner and I was the one on the receiving end of the sweep: The exchange 2 and 4 for 3 is good for Black I believe, since it help black strengthen his corner, If 6 and 7 are also fine for black, and good shape, and most of all that White needs to fix at 8, then that explains further why we don't see a footsweep in such positions. |
Author: | lovelove [ Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:46 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Footsweep shape question. |
peppernut wrote: ... then that explains further why we don't see a footsweep in such positions. Footsweep is usually seen in modern pro games with similar situation on the diagram below. |
Author: | Loons [ Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:38 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Footsweep shape question. |
A joseki. NB the footsweep can also lead to hard variations. |
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