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| Best glass stones (6 Brothers vs Shinkwang Phoenix vs Japan) http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=13166 |
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| Author: | spalin [ Sun May 08, 2016 9:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Best glass stones (6 Brothers vs Shinkwang Phoenix vs Japan) |
I'm looking for highest quality glass stones, not taller than 10mm. I'm not considering Yunzi (lead inconsistencies) and Clamshells because of the price. I will be ordering from California. I have couple options: Korean 1) 6 Brothers for $59 from GoGameGuru 2) Shinkwang Phoenix Glass for $116 (through Amazon) Japanese 3) Unnamed S225 glass stones from kiseido.com for $120 4) Unnamed SJ030 glass stones from yutopian.com for $89 Questions: - How do 6 Brothers compare to Shinkwang Phoenix in terms of quality? - Is it worth going through a questionable ordering forms on kiseido to get Japanese stones? If so, what is the difference between S225 and SJ030? How would they be different from Korean stones? - Are there other options I should consider? Thank you in advance. |
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| Author: | gowan [ Sun May 08, 2016 10:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best glass stones (6 Brothers vs Shinkwang Phoenix vs Ja |
You can get Japanese glass stones from Aoyama Gobanten : http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~goban/engli ... tml#top10f. Their price for 10mm thick glass stones is 6200 yen, about US$62. Of course you have to add shipping. They ship EMS and accept payment via Paypal. |
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| Author: | spalin [ Sun May 08, 2016 11:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best glass stones (6 Brothers vs Shinkwang Phoenix vs Ja |
@gowan Thank you! Would Aoyama Gobanten glass stones be any different than Kiseido or Utopian? Do you have experience with Korean glass stones? |
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| Author: | Jujube [ Sun May 08, 2016 4:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best glass stones (6 Brothers vs Shinkwang Phoenix vs Ja |
I think that Kiseido's ordering form is just old, rather than questionable. The general consensus is that they are quite reputable (as well as being prolific publishers in the world of go, of course). I remember Ed Lee's comment in another thread about a Japanese lady who played with beautiful crackled glass stones - very snazzy. If your research takes you to crackled glass stones (kind of mud-crack-like patterns on the surface), let us know. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Sun May 08, 2016 4:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hi Jujube, yes, me too. ( However, I wonder if that level of glass stones can no longer be found...  )Also, it was not a mud-crackled texture. Rather, it was more like a 'frosted glass', uniformly matte surface. Except it wasn't frosted -- just a similar, matte, texture.  |
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| Author: | spalin [ Sun May 08, 2016 4:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best glass stones (6 Brothers vs Shinkwang Phoenix vs Ja |
Thank you. Kiseido and utopian don't have much information about the stones. Why would one cost 80 and another 120? How do they compare to the Korean stones? I'm willing to pay extra but I need to know what is the difference. Does anyone know or has any experience with these Japanese stones? Which one should I chose? |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Sun May 08, 2016 5:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hi spalin, Is this for home use, or "coffee shop" use ? Which other materials have you experienced ? How much experience have you had with glass stones ? ( Curious how you decide on getting 'the highest quality' glass stones, versus other materials ? ) spalin wrote: Are there other options I should consider? Yes -- Have you experienced the 10 mm weighted ING plastic stones ?My experience was after about 7-8 years with glass stones, including Japanese 10 mm glass stones ( US$110+ ), for coffee shop use, I now hands down prefer the 10 mm ING weighted plastic stones ( US $20+ ). ( For home use, it's another story. ) |
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| Author: | spalin [ Sun May 08, 2016 9:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best glass stones (6 Brothers vs Shinkwang Phoenix vs Ja |
This is for home use. I appreciate the replies. At this point I want to see if someone can help me understand the difference between 4 choices. Why would I choose one over the others? Disregarding price difference. Thank you! |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Mon May 09, 2016 12:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hi spalin, Based on my limited experience with Korean ~8 mm glass stones and ~10 mm Japanese glass stones, they are all irregular. I don't know exactly the manufacturing process for glass stones. I guess they use some kind of mold; I also guess that during the cooling process, the glass forms slight irregularities. ( In comparison, my 10 mm ING weighted plastic stones are very uniform in shape. ) My experience was while both the Korean and Japanese glass stones were not 100% uniformly shaped, the Korean stones were more irregular. Thus the price differences -- my guess. |
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| Author: | Bonobo [ Mon May 09, 2016 7:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
EdLee wrote: [..] 10 mm ING weighted plastic stones ( US $20+ ). If only it were possible to actually purchase ING stones … I’ve searched and tried … but Yutopian, although they still have them on their page, doesn’t seem to sell these stones anymore [..]  I’’d be happy if I even got a used set of these. |
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| Author: | spalin [ Mon May 09, 2016 11:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best glass stones (6 Brothers vs Shinkwang Phoenix vs Ja |
What is the difference between Shink Wang Phoenix and 6 Brothers? Both are readily available but Phoenix is $116 and 6 Brothers is $57 on GoGameGuru. Any experience with both? Besides the price, what could be different? |
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| Author: | tsuboniwa [ Tue May 17, 2016 12:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Best glass stones (6 Brothers vs Shinkwang Phoenix vs Ja |
I was interested in a similar question about ten years ago. Here are some direct and indirect data points that may be perhaps of interest. Glass stones: Japanese vs Korean About ten years ago we compared with a friend a set of Japanese glass stones and a set of Korean glass stones:
The packaging box of Japanese glass stones S224 was essentially identical to S225 which seems to be identical to the packaging box of Aoyama Gobanten glass stones which seems to be identical to the packaging box of the Nihon Kiin shop glass stones. This seems to indicate that the Japanese glass stones come from the same manufacturer, hinting at a negative answer to your question "Would Aoyama Gobanten glass stones be any different than Kiseido or Utopian?". I don't remember the packaging box of the Korean glass stones, but I recall they were either M1 or M2, and so could have been produced by SixBrothersBaduk. (One of the best Korean manufacturers.) What we found out is that the Japanese glass stones seemed actually a bit more irregular than the Korean ones. This was surprising, since going contrary to the popular belief. I have measured with a caliper a random sample of about 25 or 50 stones from both sets, calculated the mean diameter and thickness values and the standard deviation. Unfortunately I don't have the numbers anymore, but I recall that the Korean glass stones were more homogeneous than the Japanese glass stones, confirming our feeling. Some probable and improbable hypotheses of why this could be: (1) small sample size, hence not significant result; (2) it may be easier to produce homogeneous thinner glass stones than thicker glass stones; (3) it may be easier to produce somewhat "flatter" glass stones than properly "rounded" ones (see pictures below); (4) the glass stones may be more popular in Korea than in Japan, so the Korean manufacturers may pay more attention to regularity, since in Japan the quest for regularity usually means upgrading to shell and slate stones. Regardless of the actual reason, this shows that the rule of the thumb saying that Japanese glass stones are usually a bit more regular than Korean glass stones is to be taken with a grain of salt -- at least for this particular sample we have been testing. It's best to test each concrete set. (Note that sellers are usually very collaborative and replace any too abnormally irregular glass stones.) Glass stones vs Yunzi vs Slate Even though I don't find anymore the caliper measurements, I found some photos. Here is a comparison of the Korean glass stone (M1 or M2) with Kuroki Goishiten slate stone of equivalent size: You can see somewhat "flatter" top side of the glass stone, plus somewhat thicker rim. Here is a comparison of a Japanese glass stone (S224) with a biconvex Yunzi stone and a Kuroki Goishiten slate stone of equivalent size: Again the rim is much thicker for yunzi and glass stones, with yunzi being the worst shape here. (The lead controversy aside.) Note also that the Korean glass stone above seem to resemble the shape of the slate stone more than the Japanese glass stone here; perhaps due to additional thickness here. SixBrothersBaduk glass stones size 36 I have a sample of SixBrothersBaduk glass stones size 36 from the GoGameGuru, so let's see what happens if the thickness of stones increases even more. Here is the similar comparison with Kuroki Goishiten slate stone size 36: Note the less rounded shape of the glass stone, but rather "contained" rim again. One can see that in all cases -- thin, medium, thick stones -- the common problem of glass stones is an "inelegant" shape and a rather thick rim. This means that it is actually harder to manipulate glass stones of certain thickness when compared to slate stones of the same thickness. To me, the SixBrothersBaduk size 36 glass stones are more slippery and require more grip than the Kuroki Goishiten size 36 slate stones. The slate stones, thanks to their better rounded shape and thinner rim, can be placed even with "tips of fingertips", if you know what I mean. The glass stones require much stronger grip. The second significant difference is what I would call the stability or sturdiness of slate stones on the board; they are less likely to move when compared to the glass stones. However, would the shape difference, the grip texture, and the stone stability difference matter to you? Sample stones Only you can tell whether this difference matters for home use. The best would be to get some sample stones and see for yourselves. E.g. GoGameGuru sells a sample of SixBrothersBaduk size 36 glass stones for USD $5 only. The GoGameGuru's stones are rather nice and I think they constitute an excellent value for money. However, the stones may feel perhaps too thick, perhaps too slippery, or perhaps too irregular to you, depending on your home use criteria, so it would be best to get a sample and test for yourself. If your quest for the best glass stones won't give satisfactory results with several samples, you can perhaps consider getting a used set of shell and slate stones?! This may perhaps provide an economical and ecological(!) alternative to seeking "the best glass stones" out there. P.S. I have never handled Phoenix glass stones; I would also be interested in hearing whether anyone did compare them? |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Tue May 17, 2016 3:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hi tsuboniwa, Yes! Finally, someone who actually cares and does the (very tedious) work of analysis! Thanks very much. |
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| Author: | tsuboniwa [ Thu May 19, 2016 11:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: |
EdLee wrote: I have a Phoenix 10mm set somewhere... Nice! Would you manage to take a close-up picture of the stone shape, comparing to your slate stones and your Ing stones, similar to the pictures I posted above? |
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