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Volunteers wanted
http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=2209		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Hsiang [ Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:43 am ]
Post subject:  Volunteers wanted
pwaldron wrote:
If you can promise that people won't have to interact with the powers that be then you might consider posting the job ads here....

OK, Phil, I will bite.

First, I need a couple of people to help me with a promotional file. Recently Lisa Scott and I hurriedly put together a power point file introducing AGA and the US Go Congress to be used in soliciting commercial sponsorship for the Congress. The file is in English and in English-Chinese bilingual. Copies of it have been sent to several Chinese companies. But I think (and I am sure Lisa agrees) that we could use some help to spruce it up. Required is the ability to dig up and assemble AGA and Congress-related images and information, then compile them into a dynamic PPT promotional files. I have a first deadline in about 2-1/2 weeks. A second person is needed to translate the English texts into Korean and to insert them into the file. This is relatively easy, I think, as the file is set up for bilingual, you just need to change the Chinese text blocks into Korean.

Second, I need a couple of people who are good at math and have interest in working on analyzing and merging various international rating systems. Since the math here is not absolute, the individual(s) need be math strong but not headstrong and can work with international characters in an environment where pigeon English is the primary language. ;-) This is a multi-year, phase-by-phase project, so I also need your commitment long-term.

Third, I am looking for candidates for international referees. We have had the need for this for quite some time; it finally looks like there is now the means to train and certify such referees. Required qualifications include: not headstrong, as above; familiarity with the basics of the existing international rules and tournament rules; preference for someone with functional knowledge in Chinese, Japanese, or Korean; and for now, I am only looking for North American candidates.

So, write to me and volunteer. You will find my email address at: http://usgo.org/org/who.html

Except for the first one, the jobs are not related to AGA. And for the first one, I promise to keep the "power that be" away from you.
Author:  DrStraw [ Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Volunteers wanted
You don't say, but I assume you are:
VP - International Thomas Hsiang igf AT usgo DOT org

[edited by Joaz Banbeck to frustrate spammers]

EDIT: Did you also edit the public domain AGA web page I directly copied it from?
Author:  Hsiang [ Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Volunteers wanted
Thanks for exposing my email address for spam. :roll:
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Volunteers wanted
Hsiang wrote:
...
First, I need a couple of people to help me with a promotional file. Recently Lisa Scott and I hurriedly put together a power point file introducing AGA and the US Go Congress to be used in soliciting commercial sponsorship for the Congress. ...


There may be some duplication of efforts here. At Colorado Springs, Andy Okun presented his plans for soliciting commercial sponsorship.
Author:  vash3g [ Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Volunteers wanted
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
There may be some duplication of efforts here. At Colorado Springs, Andy Okun presented his plans for soliciting commercial sponsorship.


Lets assume that it is in the interest of the organization to have multiple people work on this rather than one.
Author:  DrStraw [ Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Volunteers wanted
Hsiang wrote:
Thanks for exposing my email address for spam. :roll:


Well, at first I did not. I disguised it the usual way. But as I copied it directly from the AGA web page I figured it was already in the public domain and exposed for spam so it seemed much clearer to just copy it directly.

You cannot have it both way. Either change it on the AGA web page or don't complain.
Author:  dtslife [ Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Volunteers wanted
How strong do we have to be a referee? As an international referee, do we have to travel abroad?
Author:  Hsiang [ Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Volunteers wanted
dtslife wrote:
How strong do we have to be a referee? As an international referee, do we have to travel abroad?

So far, all the international referees that I know of are all "strong amateurs", meaning perhaps AGA 4d, 5d and up? Once certified, the refs will be expected to travel abroad. For an initial period, the planned use of refs is mostly for international events held at the ref's home country and/or continent.

BTW, so far I have only received two volunteers via email and I have responded to both. If you have written but did not get a response from me, please leave a PM here with your email address -- just in case the AGA mail reflector dropped an email or two.
Author:  dtslife [ Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Volunteers wanted
It sounds like the referees you are searching for live outside of the USA.
Unfortunately, at this time, I don't believe believe I have the qualifications to be a referee.
I am only 1k on KGS and also I am a full-student and do not yet have the finance to travel abroad.
Author:  Hsiang [ Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Volunteers wanted
dtslife wrote:
It sounds like the referees you are searching for live outside of the USA.
Unfortunately, at this time, I don't believe I have the qualifications to be a referee.
I am only 1k on KGS and also I am a full-time student and do not yet have the finance to travel abroad.

I can easily think of a couple of dozens US players who would fit the requirements; but none of them have yet to come forward... :sad:

For now your rank is probably too low for the job; but if you are interested, here's an incentive for you to get stronger! Also, you do not need to be concerned about the finance, I expect the referee's expense to be covered by the tournament organizers.
Author:  Javaness [ Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Volunteers wanted
Hsiang wrote:
dtslife wrote:
It sounds like the referees you are searching for live outside of the USA.
Unfortunately, at this time, I don't believe I have the qualifications to be a referee.
I am only 1k on KGS and also I am a full-time student and do not yet have the finance to travel abroad.

I can easily think of a couple of dozens US players who would fit the requirements; but none of them have yet to come forward... :sad:

For now your rank is probably too low for the job; but if you are interested, here's an incentive for you to get stronger! Also, you do not need to be concerned about the finance, I expect the referee's expense to be covered by the tournament organizers.


Do you really need to be particularly strong to be a referee? All you need to do surely, is to be able to read and understand the rules?
Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Volunteers wanted
Imagine a 10k who "understands" the rules making a ruling on your complex 1d game... I imagine that's how the 7d+ crowd would feel about us mortals making judgments about their games...
Author:  Javaness [ Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Volunteers wanted
daniel_the_smith wrote:
Imagine a 10k who "understands" the rules making a ruling on your complex 1d game... I imagine that's how the 7d+ crowd would feel about us mortals making judgments about their games...


Happens all the time in chess...
Author:  daniel_the_smith [ Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Volunteers wanted
Javaness wrote:
daniel_the_smith wrote:
Imagine a 10k who "understands" the rules making a ruling on your complex 1d game... I imagine that's how the 7d+ crowd would feel about us mortals making judgments about their games...


Happens all the time in chess...


An active chess player can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that chess rules are clearer and chess positions easier to understand... IOW, "Is en passant legal here?" is a simpler question than "am I allowed to retake this ko under whatever ko rule we're using"... I think the latter requires a more advanced understanding of the game.
Author:  Javaness [ Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Volunteers wanted
Under the Area and Territory rules that these new International Referees will officiate on, the Ko rule will effectively be the same unless the game is recorded. If it is recorded there can be no dispute. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)
Author:  Hsiang [ Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Volunteers wanted
Javaness wrote:
Under the Area and Territory rules that these new International Referees will officiate on, the Ko rule will effectively be the same unless the game is recorded. If it is recorded there can be no dispute. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

For this example you are correct. But if we look at the recent disputes that actually took place on the board - at least the well publicized ones - you will see that in most cases the referees have had to do some interpretation of the rules because the latter simply cannot be written to account for every possible scenario. Here having an understanding of the actual play is an important part of making decision. I think this is what Dan alluded to.
Author:  shapenaji [ Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Volunteers wanted
I would also argue that it's not that a 10k couldn't understand the rules or the ruling, but that the stronger a player is, the more readily the problem associated with a position will become apparent, and the less likely the player is to be biased by a mistaken judgement of the board.

.... Although, I'm curious, in the past, how often have referees been called to make a decision, outside of Japanese rules?
Author:  HermanHiddema [ Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Volunteers wanted
shapenaji wrote:
I would also argue that it's not that a 10k couldn't understand the rules or the ruling, but that the stronger a player is, the more readily the problem associated with a position will become apparent, and the less likely the player is to be biased by a mistaken judgement of the board.

.... Although, I'm curious, in the past, how often have referees been called to make a decision, outside of Japanese rules?


In my experience, the most common causes for calling a referee are:

1. Clock malfunction or confusion
2. Questions about an unfamiliar rule set (e.g. Ing rules)
3. Weak players needing help with L&D or seki for counting.
4. Technicalities (e.g. when is a move final?)

The number of times a referee is called for such thing as triple ko, bent four, or other tricky rules dependent positions is vanishingly small.
Author:  Horibe [ Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Volunteers wanted
HermanHiddema wrote:
shapenaji wrote:
I would also argue that it's not that a 10k couldn't understand the rules or the ruling, but that the stronger a player is, the more readily the problem associated with a position will become apparent, and the less likely the player is to be biased by a mistaken judgement of the board.

.... Although, I'm curious, in the past, how often have referees been called to make a decision, outside of Japanese rules?


In my experience, the most common causes for calling a referee are:

1. Clock malfunction or confusion
2. Questions about an unfamiliar rule set (e.g. Ing rules)
3. Weak players needing help with L&D or seki for counting.
4. Technicalities (e.g. when is a move final?)

The number of times a referee is called for such thing as triple ko, bent four, or other tricky rules dependent positions is vanishingly small.


I certainly agree with the above. Still, their can be huge egos involved in these disputes, and often there will be a winner and a loser. I suspect that, regardless of the necessity, the stronger the referee, the more respect for the decision (all other factors being equal).
Author:  HermanHiddema [ Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Volunteers wanted
Horibe wrote:
I certainly agree with the above. Still, their can be huge egos involved in these disputes, and often there will be a winner and a loser. I suspect that, regardless of the necessity, the stronger the referee, the more respect for the decision (all other factors being equal).


Yes, one of the most important qualities in a referee is that he or she should be respected by the players. Although it is not always warranted, stronger players are generally accorded more respect, so they will have a head start. Still, weaker players that have a reputation for fair refereeing will also command respect, so it is by no means impossible to be a referee without being a dan player. Also, confidence and people skills are important in a referee, and will go a long way.
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