This whole thread is about taking a stricter view of escapers, yet the way to deal with unpleasant games is to escape. On the basis that if you do choose to escape, the game will sit there (as neither player will want to continue). This means that, eventually, you'll have your 10 games in the escape queue and you'll then automatically lose all 10, which then is exactly the same as resigning the games in the first place.

then how can resigning an occasional rated game really hurt the integrity of the rating system?
after 6 months it'll no longer matter.

Because the result would propagate through the system since rank calculations depend on the opponent's rank.

It doesn't hurt very much, assuming you only do it occasionally. But leaving the game hurts the rating system even less, therefore on this argument alone it is a better solution.

But this whole argument is over what should be done in the case that you want to stop playing the game due to opponent's bad manners. KGS admins ask that you leave the game instead of resign it. Is that such a hard request to follow?

To me the primary difference between leaving the game and resigning it is that it accurately represents what happened. A game was started, but one of the players decided he did not want to complete the game normally. Another important reason is that it reinforces the perception that rated games are serious contests of skill, and should not be resigned for reasons other than showing lesser skill than your opponent in that game.

ETA: For those finding it necessary to decide to resign or leave the game, roughly how often does this happen to you over 6 months?

If I resign it, it won't count after 6 months either.



That's one reason it's a better solution.

For better or worse, the culture of KGS has made escapers a "bad thing". By leaving the game, I effectively mark myself as an escaper, which I feel I should have the right not to do. I was accused quite some time ago by a random person of being a sandbagger+escaper simply because I was a) underrated, and b) had two unfinished games in my list where I was winning - one because of a rude opponent where I'd left, and one because my opponent was losing and he'd left. As a result, I got grief for something that could be easily avoided by resigning those two games, which would have a negligible effect on the system as a whole.

2 games in 6 months is a tiny amount of proportional impact on the server and other people's ratings. However, the impact on me as an individual and my enjoyment of KGS is much larger from what happened above. To me, this is a stronger argument for resigning over escaping.

I don't think there is a mark for an escaper. I don't view it as anything wrong to have unfinished games on the game list.

But like Topazg said - a lot of people do! There is definitely a very negative connotation with unfinished games. And this is regardless of who is doing the escaping (since it still just shows up as an unfinished game).

_________________
KGS: schultz [?].

I know. I'm just providing a different viewpoint here. I had many games adjourned with people I know. I figure when I see some unfinished games, that's what happened to other people as well.

If someone leaves on me during a game, I would just leave that as well and hope to resume it later.

2 games in 6 months is tiny, we agree.

But only 1 random person made a false accusation against you, I think that is an equally tiny number. So I would not change my behaviors to try to please a tiny group of people who make such false accusations. In fact you are changing your behavior to try to please this tiny group, but KGS admins are explicitly asking you not to behave that way. You can't please everyone, but you choose to displease the KGS admins?

Ah, made the fatal internet flaw of assuming you didn't know what you were talking about! My apologies.

Personally, I don't even play enough games for this to matter - but I can understand the frustration. When I do play, I'm usually just auto-matching - which is a way around any sort of negative connotations before you start a game. I've had really good luck with all the games, too (only played it in the lower SDK ranges (7-9k), though, so "your mileage may vary").

_________________
KGS: schultz [?].

My two games have an impact spread over perhaps 20,000 players or however many have an active rating on KGS. That's a player impacted by player ratio of 1:10,000. The one person making an accusation on me has a 1:1 impact, and is directed confrontationally at me, rather than happening outside of my experience and knowledge. They aren't at all "equivalently small".

There are also wider implications. Effectively, KGS is advocating a policy that if you are offended or unhappy with your opponent, the correct response is just to walk out on the game. Not only do I think this behaviour rather rude, but it effectively allows people to sandbag by leaving won games claiming to be offended by the opponent not saying have a good game, or by their avatar, or whatever they feel like being offended by. Conversely, it allows people who find overplay really rude to walk out on a game they were winning but where they got ripped off badly by an overplay, claiming their opponent was rude. Technically, this behaviour is in line with KGS policy, which just seems a bit perverse to me.

The irony is, if it happens lots, you end up effectively resigning each game in this manner, just like the policy was designed to prevent.

A further irony is the fact that true habitual escapers don't have any unfinished games in their record, as by that point they are all automatic forfeits anyway (although if I'm honest I don't know whether or not these are W+F or something instead of W+R).

Intentionally resiging won game has relatively big imapact on you and your opponent, smaller on other opponents of you both and minimal effect on other players. So it isn't spread equally across 20 000 people.


Or they can just play intentionally badly. The system can't prevent this → if you think you saw sandbagger, just tell admins and they will ban him from playing ranked games.


Yup, it's marked as W+F.

Sorry, but I'm not getting this. If I am playing against somebody who is abusing me, surely I am entitled to walk out, call the referee (admin), and get it dealt with. Also, if I manage to click on the 1-1 point, my opponent refuses to undo, I feel entitled to walk out. They're just violated the whole culture of respect...

Also, I've yet to see a sandbagger actively escaping to lower his rank.

_________________
North Lecale

This is strange. According to KGS Escaper FAQ:
So if he didn't leave any of unfinished rated games he may have number of them in his list without being marked as escaper.