I'm going to burglarize Bantari's house tonight. I'm sure that I'll find the door unlocked.
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| Why aren't escapers marked? http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3678 |
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| Author: | Toge [ Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Why aren't escapers marked? |
I'd like to have a feature that clearly marks escaping players. I'm sick of having my game list tarnished with unfinished games where my opponent has escaped, thus ruining my game experience and reputation of always finishing up my games. I don't want to associate with these cheaters and freeloaders. |
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| Author: | MrPlatypus [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why aren't escapers marked? |
I don't think there is anyway to really mark an escaper. I've had one game escaped on, so I blocked that user, but I also had a system crash while I was still using Linux, so I escaped a game. I did make it a point to email the guy I blamed, apologized profusely, and told him I would be up for another game, because I don't want the label of an escaper. But in my case, though I escaped, I tried to make good. Others are not so courteous. A way to mark an escaper would do the server a lot of good, and teach people to either play it out, apologize, or get a label that sticks with 'em. |
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| Author: | Tryphon [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why aren't escapers marked? |
I think too that KGS policy about escaper has always been too laxist. At first sight, I was really reluctant to the feedback feature on OGS, but finally I tend to appreciate to know what kind of person is my opponent. |
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| Author: | daal [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why aren't escapers marked? |
Here's an idea (for wms): When one of the players leaves a game before finishing, just mark the player who guaranteed didn't escape by not putting his name in italics in the (temporary) game result list. |
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| Author: | Apoah [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why aren't escapers marked? |
I've always thought another good feature would be something like if you escaped a game, you could not start another one until you reopened and resigned from the game you escaped from (or finished it). I used to block escapers, but now I put them on my buddy list and whenever I see them, I just keep reloading the game until they finish it or resign. the OCD in me hates those italic games in my list. |
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| Author: | Redundant [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why aren't escapers marked? |
Apoah wrote: I've always thought another good feature would be something like if you escaped a game, you could not start another one until you reopened and resigned from the game you escaped from (or finished it). I used to block escapers, but now I put them on my buddy list and whenever I see them, I just keep reloading the game until they finish it or resign. the OCD in me hates those italic games in my list. This is a terrible idea. I recently started a game, and then the computer I was playing on crashed hard. My opponent went on to start another game. This idea would require me to track down my opponent and force him to finish the game in order to play someone else. |
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| Author: | hyperpape [ Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why aren't escapers marked? |
There is a KGS Faq that implicitly answers or rejects many of the questions/suggestions posted in this thread. http://www.gokgs.com/help/faq_en.html?helpLocale=de_DE (at a glance, there seem to be multiple versions of the FAQ running around). |
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| Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why aren't escapers marked? |
I recently came accross a way of marking escapers. Not a particularly strong way, but something. A user named Knjyon has compiled a list of the people who he knows to be escapers and put it in his notes. I may copy this. |
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| Author: | Bantari [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 8:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why aren't escapers marked? |
Let me let go of some of my grumpiness: So somebody escaped on you. So what? Think of it as a win and move on! So your game is marked in italics? Well... I sort-of understand complaining about rank impact (although this too I find silly) but complaining about the typeface your results are written in is just ridiculous, I think. I think the issue of escapers is only big because people make it big. Once people learn to chill and relax and just enjoy the game rather than being so uptight, the problem of escapers will disappear. Sure there will still be escapers, but so what? All they harm is themselves, you should pity them instead of getting angry and seeking stricter coutermeasures. There will always be a percetnage of such poor souls out there who cannot handle live and do silly things, in Go and everywhere else... If you don't learn to live with it, you'll end up like me - old and grumpy. Well... I don't know what else to say. Have said it all so many times already... lol. |
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| Author: | Toge [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why aren't escapers marked? |
Joaz Banbeck wrote: I recently came accross a way of marking escapers. Not a particularly strong way, but something. A user named Knjyon has compiled a list of the people who he knows to be escapers and put it in his notes. I may copy this. - Many players do this, but I have mixed feelings about naming and shaming other players like that. There's no way to prove that the accusations are corrrect. The lists aren't comprehensive either, so automated solution is a better way. |
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| Author: | Toge [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why aren't escapers marked? |
Bantari wrote: Let me let go of some of my grumpiness: So somebody escaped on you. So what? Think of it as a win and move on! - So what? A butterfly flaps its wings and causes a storm. Was the mistake in recognizing the problem (1), reporting about it (2) or caring (3) about it? You came here to tell me that big boys don't cry. Bantari wrote: So your game is marked in italics? Well... I sort-of understand complaining about rank impact (although this too I find silly) but complaining about the typeface your results are written in is just ridiculous, I think. - Oh but typeface is just a sign. I don't like what it represents and how the representation affects both the victim and the bully. Bantari wrote: I think the issue of escapers is only big because people make it big. - In the same sense we could argue that there is no crime in society if victims don't report it. Is it desirable outcome? Bantari wrote: Once people learn to chill and relax and just enjoy the game rather than being so uptight, the problem of escapers will disappear. Sure there will still be escapers, but so what? All they harm is themselves, you should pity them instead of getting angry and seeking stricter coutermeasures. There will always be a percetnage of such poor souls out there who cannot handle live and do silly things, in Go and everywhere else... If you don't learn to live with it, you'll end up like me - old and grumpy. - Somehow it seems just easier to build that concrete barrier to keep the baddies at bay instead of cultivating affirmative personality to accept them how they are. Worthy goal, though! |
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| Author: | hyperpape [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why aren't escapers marked? |
Toge wrote: Bantari wrote: I think the issue of escapers is only big because people make it big. - In the same sense we could argue that there is no crime in society if victims don't report it. Is it desirable outcome? |
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| Author: | Javaness [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why aren't escapers marked? |
Toge wrote: - Somehow it seems just easier to build that concrete barrier to keep the baddies at bay instead of cultivating affirmative personality to accept them how they are. Worthy goal, though! You are not going to cure a psychological problem through software development. I just never checked somebody's game list before I play them to see if they had a "good reputation", does anyone really, actually do that? |
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| Author: | Bantari [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why aren't escapers marked? |
Yeah... yadda yadda... no offense. The issue is - you care too much about that. And you think you are represented in this or that way by the italics because this is how you judge others yourself and so you project. When you think about it a little, the italics mean absolutely NOTHING - precisely for the reason you gave: they don't distinguish between victim and victimizer. So neither you nor anybody else should judge based by it... so they are meaningless. So why do you care? And yes, big boys don't cry... over small things. If you really think you should make the italics a BIG THING - go ahead, cry. I really don't mind, just voicing an opinion. As for barriers... life and history shows bad attitude cannot be regulated. Look at the discussions we have had about 'sportsmanship' and how some wanted to write a rule guiding every single facet of such behavior. Look at other idiocies - legal code fro example, or tax code... trying to close each loophole and regulate everything. And guess what - it will never happen. You close this hole, people will come through another. It will never be that everybody behaves the way YOU like them to. You can spend your life reporting and building barriers, or you can smarten up and start looking at the glass as being half-full instead. So no, I seriously think that such 'building barriers' is futile in the long run, and thus ultimately harder than adjusting your own attitude slightly to start enjoying rather than condemning. I think people at KGS (and other servers) know very well about escapers, so to keep informing them about the issue repeatedly also seems silly. But hey - do what you must. Your mileage may vary. Toge wrote: Bantari wrote: Let me let go of some of my grumpiness: So somebody escaped on you. So what? Think of it as a win and move on! - So what? A butterfly flaps its wings and causes a storm. Was the mistake in recognizing the problem (1), reporting about it (2) or caring (3) about it? You came here to tell me that big boys don't cry. Bantari wrote: So your game is marked in italics? Well... I sort-of understand complaining about rank impact (although this too I find silly) but complaining about the typeface your results are written in is just ridiculous, I think. - Oh but typeface is just a sign. I don't like what it represents and how the representation affects both the victim and the bully. Bantari wrote: I think the issue of escapers is only big because people make it big. - In the same sense we could argue that there is no crime in society if victims don't report it. Is it desirable outcome? Bantari wrote: Once people learn to chill and relax and just enjoy the game rather than being so uptight, the problem of escapers will disappear. Sure there will still be escapers, but so what? All they harm is themselves, you should pity them instead of getting angry and seeking stricter coutermeasures. There will always be a percetnage of such poor souls out there who cannot handle live and do silly things, in Go and everywhere else... If you don't learn to live with it, you'll end up like me - old and grumpy. - Somehow it seems just easier to build that concrete barrier to keep the baddies at bay instead of cultivating affirmative personality to accept them how they are. Worthy goal, though! |
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| Author: | Bantari [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why aren't escapers marked? |
Toge wrote: Bantari wrote: I think the issue of escapers is only big because people make it big. - In the same sense we could argue that there is no crime in society if victims don't report it. Is it desirable outcome? This is a very silly statement, you know. A fly just flew into your window and possibly injured itself. Lets report it to PETA. After all, we are reporting what we don't like, right? Its a matter of degree - and it is up to us to make a choice about what is worth making fuss about and what is not. It is up to YOU to decide what is IMPORTANT. If you make escapers important (which they don't really deserve) - then it is your personal little choice, not some overwhelmingly high-roadish social statement. |
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| Author: | Joaz Banbeck [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why aren't escapers marked? |
I'm going to burglarize Bantari's house tonight. I'm sure that I'll find the door unlocked.
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| Author: | Javaness [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why aren't escapers marked? |
Joaz Banbeck wrote: I'm going to burglarize Bantari's house tonight. I'm sure that I'll find the door unlocked. You're missing the point. If you burgle a house, then the occupant suffers. Our possessions are generally pretty important to us, and we also feel violated because our illusion of 'safety in our own home' has been broken. If you lose a game of Go played online, heh, it's just a game. If somebody escapes from your game, heh, you won but you don't get the rating points*, It is just a game. Get over it. *well actually a pretty high percentage do get the forfeit anyway on KGS |
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| Author: | Redundant [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why aren't escapers marked? |
Telling someone to "get over it" when they have a legitimate grievance (even if you don't agree) is one of the most patronizing things it's possible to say. |
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| Author: | Javaness [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why aren't escapers marked? |
Redundant wrote: Telling someone to "get over it" when they have a legitimate grievance (even if you don't agree) is one of the most patronizing things it's possible to say. Good. |
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| Author: | Bantari [ Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Why aren't escapers marked? |
Redundant wrote: Telling someone to "get over it" when they have a legitimate grievance (even if you don't agree) is one of the most patronizing things it's possible to say. Well... you fuss and cry like a child, guess what... you get patronized like one. Its either this or spanking, but that's hard to do over the web... Having said the above - I did not mean being patronizing. But from what you say one should never tell anybody to 'get over it' or 'cowboy up' or 'stop being a baby'... well, I disagree. There are times when a person should just 'get over it', and I think the issue of escapers is one of them. Why? The issue is a very minor one (even if it crushes your ego and your love for the pretty little rating points and proper typefaces), the server has a policy in place, they have made it clear many times what the policy is, why it is the way it is, and that they are unlikely to change it and why. Crying over it repeatedly is not productive. I would say - childish. But hey, whatever rocks your boat, mate. To show you that it is appropriate to 'get over it' sometimes - I will now 'get over' the whole discussion. Tada! |
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