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Go is still fun but kgs is no longer fun.
http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7178		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  duckweed [ Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Go is still fun but kgs is no longer fun.
After seven years on kgs, it seems the server is no longer fun.

When you pop in during the weekend for some nice games and simulating chats you find all the interesting old friends like XY0908, dsaun, maladroit and many others are no longer around.

All you get during the weekends are bigdoug robotically telling people that the conversation has gone on long enough in the egr and that the client no longer works properly in making sounds.

Please fix the leaking roof and try to make the server fun again. It is sad to see it dying like this. Thank you.
Author:  oren [ Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Go is still fun but kgs is no longer fun.
Aaaah, nostalgia. Everything was always better in the past... :)
Author:  duckweed [ Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Go is still fun but kgs is no longer fun.
oren wrote:
Aaaah, nostalgia. Everything was always better in the past... :)


Very true. In the past, there was stone sounds, no bold unintelligent english from seventeen, no drunken thumbtext from tealc and no dripping sarcasm from herod.
Author:  hailthorn011 [ Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Go is still fun but kgs is no longer fun.
duckweed wrote:
oren wrote:
Aaaah, nostalgia. Everything was always better in the past... :)


Very true. In the past, there was stone sounds, no bold unintelligent english from seventeen, no drunken thumbtext from tealc and no dripping sarcasm from herod.


For some reason, this post made me think of a pub. Stone sounds, unintelligent english, drunken text, and sarcasm. Or maybe it's just me lol.
Author:  oren [ Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Go is still fun but kgs is no longer fun.
hailthorn011 wrote:
For some reason, this post made me think of a pub. Stone sounds, unintelligent english, drunken text, and sarcasm. Or maybe it's just me lol.


TV was definitely better when Cheers was on. :)
Author:  Annihilist [ Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Go is still fun but kgs is no longer fun.
oren wrote:
Aaaah, nostalgia. Everything was always better in the past... :)
Everything is better when it's over.
Author:  Alguien [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Go is still fun but kgs is no longer fun.
So, your two complaints are:

A - Sound: a purely technical, objective, problem.
B - Fun in one of the rooms: A social, subjective, problem.

I think your two best paths are.
A - Try if any of the several methods described to solve the sound problem works for you.
B - Change rooms.

You see, neither of those problems is solvable by complaint. The technical one, because the developer already knows about it (further complaint and implications that no sounds will kill the server are probably ignored). The social one, because telling people "entertain me better" doesn't usually work.

I'm not saying they don't exist. They're just not solvable in that way.
Author:  NoSkill [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Go is still fun but kgs is no longer fun.
KGS is rather terrible for awhile... reasons:

1. Client is broken. No stone sound, audio pm sounds. Really??

2. Need KGS+ to enter tournaments. Pay to win now.

3. No updates on the server in awhile, like new fun go-game modes.

4. Less fun people or oldies like dsaun and XY (Not really a big problem.. but a little saddening if anything)

5. Less new people (HnG getting old)

Number 5 is the worst problem, and I think 1 is the kicker to make you want to quit.
Author:  ProtoJazz [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Go is still fun but kgs is no longer fun.
NoSkill wrote:

1. Client is broken. No stone sound, audio pm sounds. Really??


This issues seems to come and go for me, Sometimes it works on Linux but not on windows, sometimes the other way around, sometimes not at all. I agree Id like to have them

NoSkill wrote:
2. Need KGS+ to enter tournaments. Pay to win now.


Dont NEED KGS+ to enter tournaments, they still have a certain number of open spots, just sign up early. In fact for the october tournament There was still 1 left just before parings and somone joined from the room last minute.
In no way is it pay to win though.. Unless you bribe the other guy
And KGS+ Is cheap enough, Its worth it too to keep the server around

NoSkill wrote:
3. No updates on the server in awhile, like new fun go-game modes.


What game modes are there? Im not familier with other modes, Ive played rengo, and 1 color, even 3-4 color. Only other one Ive heard of is redstone...never played it

NoSkill wrote:
4. Less fun people or oldies like dsaun and XY (Not really a big problem.. but a little saddening if anything)


Ive seen and talked to dsaun in the past few months. But cant really say much more then people come and go, and a server admin cant really do anything about it

NoSkill wrote:
5. Less new people (HnG getting old)

Number 5 is the worst problem, and I think 1 is the kicker to make you want to quit.


Im not sure how to get more people to join. I know KGS has a great reputation for attracting beginners. I myself started on IGS and didnt really enjoy it, but then I read on SL that KGS was known for teaching games and friendly people. I tried it and right away enjoyed it. So much that I remember writing an email to wms, (along with the one for KGS+ android redemption) And was supprised to get a personal response back


I think in the end it is what it is, I think kgs is one of the better server but by no means is it the only one. Ive been trying the new GoPanda client for IGS and it looks very nice. And Kaya has a lot of features I really like. However every game I try to join the other guy is afk, and I have to wait 5 min.
Author:  duckweed [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Go is still fun but kgs is no longer fun.
How often do you see people ask about the stone sound and just get ignored?


Wms does't care enough to fix it.

Admins are sick of dealing with it.

Why should they when they are volunteers and even the guy who owns the server refuses to fix it and lets them take up the slack.

Normal users are sick of that loon BigDoug and his weekend admin-ing with "I think this chat is too random for the egr." and "Please do not speak in this room for the next few hours."

People used to chat and help at the same time. They can't be bothered to do so now since everything they say is labelled as too random.

So it devolved into people just posting links, random utterances and one liner blatant witticism.

People stick around for the community too. When people say kgs is a good server, do they mean only the software?

How can you develop a sense of community if you can't talk with other people?

When was the last time you have a nice chat with a newbie and offered him his first teaching game on kgs?
Author:  TheBigH [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Go is still fun but kgs is no longer fun.
oren wrote:
Aaaah, nostalgia. Everything was always better in the past... :)


I used to enjoy reminiscing, but even nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
Author:  NoSkill [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Go is still fun but kgs is no longer fun.
Unless you have used kgs before 2 years ago you really won't understand what we are talking about.

In 2000-2008 KGS had 100 people in the top social rooms, around 10 side rooms had active chats going, there were more beginners than 5k-3D, and several 9D. No stone sound issues, no admin issues for the most part, more teachers and overall better atmosphere.

Today the client has broken features like sound and opening sgf is harder, the most active social rooms have like 90 people, with maybe 1-2 social conversations going at a time max. Only very few 6D+, way less teachers, and way more 5k-3D than beginners.


Overall worse kgs client, less beginners, less teachers, less socializing, less strong players.
Author:  oren [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Go is still fun but kgs is no longer fun.
I've been on KGS since 2002. It's no different than gopher was, usenet was, irc was, etc, etc.... servers change as more people join and use things in different ways. I miss my High School BBS too even.

Rather than complain about the use of EGR, create separate rooms and get people to join. There are many active side rooms.

As far as the stone click complaint, I don't really miss it.
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Go is still fun but kgs is no longer fun.
Even the complaints used to be better :lol: .
Author:  xed_over [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Go is still fun but kgs is no longer fun.
oren wrote:
As far as the stone click complaint, I don't really miss it.

and there's the option to turn off the sounds.

turn them off, then you won't miss them or even know they're broken.
Author:  ProtoJazz [ Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Go is still fun but kgs is no longer fun.
I still say its fun to make your own sounds. For some reason a game is just so much better when every stone goes "Boink-Mooo"
Author:  duckweed [ Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Go is still fun but kgs is no longer fun.
oren wrote:
I've been on KGS since 2002. It's no different than gopher was, usenet was, irc was, etc, etc.... servers change as more people join and use things in different ways. I miss my High School BBS too even.

Rather than complain about the use of EGR, create separate rooms and get people to join. There are many active side rooms.

As far as the stone click complaint, I don't really miss it.


Wow since 2002! And I didn't even know you existed til now. That's amazing.

What are said active side rooms and what rooms are you active in?

I have no idea there even any side rooms that have a minimum of 20 people at any given time.
Author:  Javaness2 [ Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Go is still fun but kgs is no longer fun.
Well I always try to resolve people's issues with sound. I keep pointing people to the solutions posted in this forum.
The main problem, as described by wms, is the lack of backwards/forwards compatibility with Java's sound libraries.
If you don't feel admins are helping users, feel free to volunteer to be one yourself, and help out others. That's a pretty pro-active approach.

With regards to chit-chat. KGS policy on that is that if chit-chat is so dense that it prevents requests for help (in main rooms), or prevents people discussing the game (in games) then it should be moved. Personally I rarely see chit-chat at that high a frequency, and I would be surprised if you are claiming that nobody is able to talk. If you think that that is case, a better approach might be to complain to admin@gokgs.com.

I do agree that there are fewer beginners in general, I still offer some initial teaching games. I hope other people do too.

duckweed wrote:
How often do you see people ask about the stone sound and just get ignored?
Wms does't care enough to fix it.
Admins are sick of dealing with it.
Why should they when they are volunteers and even the guy who owns the server refuses to fix it and lets them take up the slack.
Normal users are sick of that loon BigDoug and his weekend admin-ing with "I think this chat is too random for the egr." and "Please do not speak in this room for the next few hours."
People used to chat and help at the same time. They can't be bothered to do so now since everything they say is labelled as too random.
So it devolved into people just posting links, random utterances and one liner blatant witticism.
People stick around for the community too. When people say kgs is a good server, do they mean only the software?
How can you develop a sense of community if you can't talk with other people?
When was the last time you have a nice chat with a newbie and offered him his first teaching game on kgs?
Author:  NoSkill [ Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Go is still fun but kgs is no longer fun.
Javaness2 wrote:
feel free to volunteer to be one yourself, and help out others. That's a pretty pro-active approach


I don't think the admins are doing a bad job or that I could do it better, but it is possible to ask to be an admin?
Author:  ProtoJazz [ Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Go is still fun but kgs is no longer fun.
I didnt know people could volunteer to be admins. Otherwise I would have volunteered some time ago
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