Life In 19x19 :: Java update

xed_over wrote:

Javapocalypse:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3418SeWZfQ

At 3:05 I lost it... My gut hurts.

You know what, I've updated to the latest Java platform, but now the SGF editor you can download isn't working! :-?

Every time I try to run it from my desktop it says that Java is unable to launch the application. What can I do to fix this?! :cry:

Yeah, why doesn't my windows 95 software that runs perfectly on windows 95 run on windows 8.

I blame windows 8.

Another example of Java scrapegoating by KGS admins to explain why their unmaintained software starts having more and more bugs like all unmaintained software does.

Why all the nastiness? It's just a fact that KGS software is not being updated, and that Java updates can have undesired consequences. In this thread, neither is Java being blamed, nor is an admin defending KGS' policies. Just another example of a disgruntled user looking for an excuse to lambast KGS?

Why the sudden accusation of nastiness? Are you projecting?

...

This thread is a fine example of how KGS users are brainwashed into think how Java is the source of all evil.

Why the sudden accusation of nastiness? Are you projecting?

Eventually the solution is a new HTML-based client to replace the outdated Java client all together. But I am slightly dismayed by the progress. Surely writing a new client is not easy, but it should not take a professional more than a couple of months to do it. To put this in context, it took me 3 nights to create a usable HTML5-base SGF viewer for Go4Go.net, and no more than a week to sort out all the bugs. I do have a day job, have never used HTML5 before, and only has Google as reference.

daal wrote:

Why the sudden accusation of nastiness? Are you projecting?

The fact KGS admins now like to explain issues with CGoban as due to Java "bugs", and users are lead to believe that all the issues are due to Java. This thread is a fine example of how KGS users are brainwashed into think how Java is the source of all evil.

Their logic is impeccable, isn't it ? After all, CGoban isn't being updated and Java is. If CGoban works fine with the previous versions of Java and no longer works with this version of Java, it must be due to more and more Java "bugs".

Framework version 137 is in fact fully backward compatible with version 136. The error is in your own program.

Author:	bleep [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:52 am ]
Post subject:	Java update
My heart sank last night when Java informed me that an update was available. What next, I thought? Perhaps the next thread here will be that the stones themselves are missing after this update, although they now make a resonant thud when placed. That might help my go though, so I look forward to it.

Author:	daal [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Java update
And you don't have the big ugly hack installed?

Author:	bleep [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 7:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Java update
I do, it works perfectly, and was simple to implement. I was just wondering what disaster would befall us all next, and how people will allow it to derail their world...

Author:	xed_over [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:50 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Java update
Javapocalypse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3418SeWZfQ

Author:	deja [ Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Java update
xed_over wrote: Javapocalypse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3418SeWZfQ At 3:05 I lost it... My gut hurts.

Life In 19x19 http://prod.lifein19x19.com/

Java update http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=8546	Page 1 of 2

Author:	AKaios [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Java update
You know what, I've updated to the latest Java platform, but now the SGF editor you can download isn't working! Every time I try to run it from my desktop it says that Java is unable to launch the application. What can I do to fix this?!

Author:	quietimes [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Java update
deja wrote: xed_over wrote: Javapocalypse: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3418SeWZfQ At 3:05 I lost it... My gut hurts. Tears. Tears were rolling down. Too funny.

Author:	daal [ Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Java update
AKaios wrote: You know what, I've updated to the latest Java platform, but now the SGF editor you can download isn't working! Every time I try to run it from my desktop it says that Java is unable to launch the application. What can I do to fix this?! The editor is still working for me, but when Java can't launch the application what usually fixes it is this: Open your Java Control Center, on the General tab at the Temporary Internet Files section click view and from there, delete the KGS app. Then go to the KGS website, download CGoban for Java web start and it usually works again.

Author:	daal [ Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Java update
I just managed to screw up my system as well. What I did was updated both my browser and Java to the 64 bit versions. CGoban still works, but clicking an SGF file won't start the application anymore. Guess I'll go back and see what happens... edit: Yep, going back to 32 bit fixed it.

Author:	Morgoth Bauglir [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Java update
Yeah, why doesn't my windows 95 software that runs perfectly on windows 95 run on windows 8. I blame windows 8. Another example of Java scrapegoating by KGS admins to explain why their unmaintained software starts having more and more bugs like all unmaintained software does.

Author:	Volatile [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Java update
I agree that any problems with java is fully kgs's fault. Sure it would be nice for java to update their software in a way that the old libraries and what not transfer. But you know, it is the admins or at least wms's job to update the KGS software to work with the current version of java. Now I realize he has a life and might not have time for that, but instead of sitting around blaming java there should be a lookout for programmers or coders who are knowledgeable and willing to help update kgs when a new java version is released. Im sure in the big go community someone might be willing to figure out a way to get the stone clicks and such back to kgs without a workaround, and then give wms the code to put into the server. Same with updates like time stamps. Im no coder and im sure its very complicated and maybe wms wouldn't want to share the project as I think he might have stated before, but if you do not have the time to update your server I think you should let others help you. What is the point in making users go through big workarounds to get basic things that we should have, just because you don't want someone else to help. If I am wrong someone on this please explain it to me, but its really frustrating how bad KGS has gone downhill since 2008 to me. Stone sounds gone, problems with the hotkeys, problems with the SGF editor, less social activity on kgs, less teachers on kgs, etc. Not all of that is KGS's fault or wms fault, but I just want to know as a user why basic fixes have not been implemented like the time stamp and stone sounds.

Author:	macelee [ Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Java update
Oracle is partly to blame. Client-side Java is declining since Oracle took it over a few years ago. Lots of programs begin to give all kinds of mysterious error messages (many can be explained by security). Having said that, I do agree that KGS should (and can) do something technically to alleviate the pains felt by end users, if not eliminate them all together. For example, I cannot understand why the Java applet on KGS website isn't digitally signed, which would help remove a few unpleasant popup windows with security warnings when users run it - surely this cost some money but for the scale of KGS's operation the cost seems to be minimum. Eventually the solution is a new HTML-based client to replace the outdated Java client all together. But I am slightly dismayed by the progress. Surely writing a new client is not easy, but it should not take a professional more than a couple of months to do it. To put this in context, it took me 3 nights to create a usable HTML5-base SGF viewer for Go4Go.net, and no more than a week to sort out all the bugs. I do have a day job, have never used HTML5 before, and only has Google as reference.

Author:	daal [ Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Java update
Morgoth Bauglir wrote: Yeah, why doesn't my windows 95 software that runs perfectly on windows 95 run on windows 8. I blame windows 8. Another example of Java scrapegoating by KGS admins to explain why their unmaintained software starts having more and more bugs like all unmaintained software does. Why all the nastiness? It's just a fact that KGS software is not being updated, and that Java updates can have undesired consequences. In this thread, neither is Java being blamed, nor is an admin defending KGS' policies. Just another example of a disgruntled user looking for an excuse to lambast KGS?

Author:	Morgoth Bauglir [ Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Java update
daal wrote: Why all the nastiness? It's just a fact that KGS software is not being updated, and that Java updates can have undesired consequences. In this thread, neither is Java being blamed, nor is an admin defending KGS' policies. Just another example of a disgruntled user looking for an excuse to lambast KGS? Why the sudden accusation of nastiness? Are you projecting? The fact KGS admins now like to explain issues with CGoban as due to Java "bugs", and users are lead to believe that all the issues are due to Java. This thread is a fine example of how KGS users are brainwashed into think how Java is the source of all evil. Their logic is impeccable, isn't it ? After all, CGoban isn't being updated and Java is. If CGoban works fine with the previous versions of Java and no longer works with this version of Java, it must be due to more and more Java "bugs".

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Author:	wineandgolover [ Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:43 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Java update
Morgoth Bauglir wrote: Why the sudden accusation of nastiness? Are you projecting? ... This thread is a fine example of how KGS users are brainwashed into think how Java is the source of all evil. You are right, no nastiness here.

Author:	judicata [ Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Java update
Morgoth Bauglir wrote: Why the sudden accusation of nastiness? Are you projecting? I normally stay out of these types of disputes. But go back and read the thread. People were just saying (1) a new java update came out (2) therefore, I very well could have problems with KGS and (3) that's bad thing. They weren't blaming java, and there was no KGS development vs. Java debate until your post. You may have your own reasons for reading other things into the posts--I suspect that because the posts weren't accompanied by a direct criticism of KGS development, you assumed they were inherently attacking Java and defensive of KGS. Who is the one projecting?

Author:	hyperpape [ Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Java update
macelee wrote: Eventually the solution is a new HTML-based client to replace the outdated Java client all together. But I am slightly dismayed by the progress. Surely writing a new client is not easy, but it should not take a professional more than a couple of months to do it. To put this in context, it took me 3 nights to create a usable HTML5-base SGF viewer for Go4Go.net, and no more than a week to sort out all the bugs. I do have a day job, have never used HTML5 before, and only has Google as reference. Yeah, an sgf viewer is not at all the same as an application that has resizeable components, continual server requests, all the game markers KGS supports, menus, and so on.

Author:	Javaness2 [ Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Java update
Morgoth Bauglir wrote: daal wrote: Why all the nastiness? It's just a fact that KGS software is not being updated, and that Java updates can have undesired consequences. In this thread, neither is Java being blamed, nor is an admin defending KGS' policies. Just another example of a disgruntled user looking for an excuse to lambast KGS? Why the sudden accusation of nastiness? Are you projecting? The fact KGS admins now like to explain issues with CGoban as due to Java "bugs", and users are lead to believe that all the issues are due to Java. This thread is a fine example of how KGS users are brainwashed into think how Java is the source of all evil. Their logic is impeccable, isn't it ? After all, CGoban isn't being updated and Java is. If CGoban works fine with the previous versions of Java and no longer works with this version of Java, it must be due to more and more Java "bugs". Dear Dark Lord of Middle Earth, The bugs are caused by Java updates not being backwards compatible, some KGS admins term this as a 'Java bug'. I fully accept that this short description does not give a full understanding of the situation. However, at no point, do we say that Java is the source of evil, for we are fully aware that you are the source of evil in this middle earth, oh Dark One. Regards,

Author:	Morgoth Bauglir [ Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Java update
I find it disingenuous to term it as Java being "not backward compatible" too. Bugfixs in frameworks more often reveal bugs in programs relying on them. An example: Suppose you must take a preflight check before taking off. Do_a_preflight_checklist() Take_off() But in your program, you simply do a Take_off() and it works. The program is wrong but version 136 of the framework doesn't check for it and lets it slide. Then version 137 comes out which does the correct thing and your Take_off() fails without because you didn't do a Do_a_preflight_checklist() first. Your program now crash and burn. Framework version 137 is in fact fully backward compatible with version 136. The error is in your own program. The fact that your program runs in version 136 is not proof that it is error free. This is why any software needs to be maintained or do you expect Java to be backward compatible with any mistakes in CGoban too?

Author:	xed_over [ Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Java update
Morgoth Bauglir wrote: Framework version 137 is in fact fully backward compatible with version 136. The error is in your own program. your example is the very definition of not being backwards compatible.