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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril
Post #101 Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 3:40 am 
Tengen
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KGS: magicwand
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Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
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OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril
Post #102 Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 6:03 am 
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@Players: This may be side joseki to you, but not to all observers. Can you add some comments?
Thanks

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Offline yithril
 Post subject: Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril
Post #103 Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:17 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So uh....this is a middle game joseki :) Not sure what else there is to say about it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 X . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . 2 . 5 . . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 4 . O 7 . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . 6 X 1 X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This variation I wouldn't choose because he gets territory which is what he needs more of right now and I don't need this thickness.

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Offline emerus
 Post subject: Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril
Post #104 Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:17 am 
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Before I saw the result of this side joseki, I thought that W's influence would amount to a large chunk of territory. But now, I feel like aji at c3/c17 are giving black a clear lead on territory and no more weaknesses to tend to.
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril
Post #105 Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 1:01 pm 
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . 5 X 4 . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
i will comment when it is time for me to comment. i will hide my reading that my opponent is missing until he realize it and too late to fix it :) . observers.. please be patient and understand.

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The greater the unknown"
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril
Post #106 Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 2:47 pm 
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for obs only:
i only can think of one possible variation for black... see below.

i dont see him jumpin in my influence and surive.
from my assessment of my opponent..he if not willing to take any risk which is his weakness.
i am curious to see how he will handle my influence.
if he doesnt effectively diminish my influence he will lose for sure.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O 8 . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O 7 . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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The greater the unknown"
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Offline Tryphon
 Post subject: Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril
Post #107 Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 2:53 pm 
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From what I see, B can invade the two left corners. Won't it be sufficient for him to win ?
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Offline yithril
 Post subject: Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril
Post #108 Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 2:56 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O 7 . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This seems slow but not playing it would be greedy. The center is also erased (remember he has forcing moves there). He takes top I take bottom and vice versa so miai. I just have to maintain my lead.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril
Post #109 Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 2:59 pm 
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O 8 . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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The greater the unknown"
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject: Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril
Post #110 Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 4:56 pm 
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Magicwand wrote:
if he doesnt effectively diminish my influence he will lose for sure.
yithril wrote:
I just have to maintain my lead.
Both think they're ahead. :mrgreen:
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Offline yithril
 Post subject: Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril
Post #111 Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:59 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This move is too weird for me to have made it up, I assure you :P There are a few pro games with it (Cho Chikun for example). If I live at the top (and I should or at least make points in the center), then I win.

Also I'll show you the variations AFTER it's all said and done :P

Magicwand will probably diss me for it, oh well.

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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #112 Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:02 pm 
Honinbo
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yithril,
yithril wrote:
This move is too weird for me to have made it up, I assure you :P
:b69: is pretty annoying. :twisted:
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril
Post #113 Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:13 pm 
Judan
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For obs:
Magicwand wrote:
...i will comment when it is time for me to comment. i will hide my reading that my opponent is missing until he realize it and too late to fix it :) . observers.. please be patient and understand.

yithril wrote:
... I'll show you the variations AFTER it's all said and done...


WTF?? Are they both taking for granted that the other guy is going to peek?
Doesn't anyone trust anybody else around here any more?

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril
Post #114 Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 9:02 pm 
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KGS: magicwand
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Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 0 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


not what i expected...but it seems like a good move...
but i got tricks of my own that he hasnt seen yet :)
coming soon

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Offline yithril
 Post subject: Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril
Post #115 Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:48 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Nein Mann, ich will noch nicht gehen, ich will noch 'n bisschen tanzen.
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril
Post #116 Posted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:19 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . 2 . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline joppon
 Post subject: Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril
Post #117 Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:07 am 
Dies with sente

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This would be my inclination. I see nothing wrong.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril
Post #118 Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:52 am 
Tengen

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@joppon
I think that :w72: would make the cut more dangerous after some preliminaries around a/b. I'm not sure--having trouble reading things out in detail.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 PRISONERS B:1 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . 2 b . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . a X . 5 O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , 4 3 X . X , X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . X O . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . , . O O X X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X O X X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . O . O O O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline jts
 Post subject: Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril
Post #119 Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:23 pm 
Oza
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@magicwand:
What are your goals on the top? What do you have to have, coming out of this sequence, to win?
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Magic Wand vs. Yithril
Post #120 Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:18 pm 
Tengen
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jts wrote:
@magicwand:
What are your goals on the top? What do you have to have, coming out of this sequence, to win?

it seems that the group on top is very hard to kill (i didnt think his last move was correct i would have played one more space)
all i am intrested in is thickness in the middle and sente.
i think my thickness will speak for itself later. black has possible territory but not solid yet.

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