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 Post subject: Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols
Post #101 Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:06 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
@The Intrpeid:

The Intrepid wrote:
I think this move by topazg is a mistake.


No, it is the only move. Anything else is absolutely awful. I would expect even a 20 kyu to get this right.

:D And, yet, I was not sure of the outcome after this move. I'll have to look at it later. Congrats on beating breakfast, by the way. :clap:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O . X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . 1 . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols
Post #102 Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:36 am 
Judan

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@The Intrepid:
k16 was the only move for black, and is now the only move for white and he can't get a bad result.

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 Post subject: Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols
Post #103 Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:43 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm52 Prisoners: :w1: :b100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . 1 . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I'm no longer sure that Black has to connect in the variation I cited earlier. I'll need to read it some more tomorrow, if topazg goes for it.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X O X C X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols
Post #104 Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:51 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm52 Prisoners: :w1: :b100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . 1 . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Shape, and White's left with another cut threat around H14 that does nothing right now, but is still bad aji.

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 Post subject: Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols
Post #105 Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:54 am 
Judan

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53 is the good move Intrepid missed in his reading (but I thought I shouldn't mention it in case it stops him playing j15): it defends against both h17 and l17 and means white achieved little here.

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 Post subject: Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols
Post #106 Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:06 pm 
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That's an interesting way for topazg to defend. I did not consider it.

Next, I plan to play the following forcing move. I need to make sure, though, that topazg has to descend and cannot uncork any tesuji instead. If so, the White stone would limit Black's territorial expansion in the area, strengthen some of the cutting points to the right, and help White stones live at the top, should that become a necessity.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O 2 1 . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

In any case, I got more or less what I wanted out of the invasion in the top right. I got additional influence toward the center and I reduced Black's territory potential on top.

However, I struggle to decide how to proceed next. I could attack the stone in the bottom right with "a" or "b." I could reinforce my moyo and put pressure on Black's central stone with something like "c." I could also consider protecting some of the cutting points in the top right with "d," but I doubt I'll do that right now.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm52
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . d O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . c . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols
Post #107 Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:22 pm 
Gosei
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The sabaki top right is going to be a bit painful if kind of tenable, but I have a hard time imagining playing anything but A or Q9.

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My Programming Blog - About the evolution of my go bot.

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Post #108 Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:46 pm 
Honinbo
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Loons wrote:
I have a hard time imagining playing anything but A or Q9.
Oh, you mean Intrepid's (a) on the board, or Q9. I read that as "A9 or Q9". :)

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 Post subject: Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols
Post #109 Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 1:03 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm54 Prisoners: :w1: :b100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O 2 1 . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Expected sequence:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$--------------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . X O X O . . . O X . . |
$$ . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 2 . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 1 . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols
Post #110 Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:28 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm54 Prisoners: :w1: :b100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O 2 1 . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Jowa says don't run - he probably wasn't talking to me though :P

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 Post subject: Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols
Post #111 Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:55 am 
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I've pretty much had sente since move :w12:, so, I guess, topazg has had enough. :D I got to think about how best to reply, but topazg's move seems rather risky. Among other things, I am considering to play a move such as this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . . . O . 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This move separates the two Black stones, denies the lower stone's base, and threatens to connect underneath. This is my "first feeling," but there must be other good options, as well.

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 Post subject: Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols
Post #112 Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:10 am 
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Comments regarding some of the previous moves. There's a challenge for kibitzers contained within part 3.
1. Move 16

Perhaps my position was not quite as good as I thought it to be at the time. If instead of tenuki (which I think was a bad choice by topazg), he attached underneath, the following sequence would significantly reduce White's moyo, leave Black with two very big corners, and still let Black extend on top (or play wherever else he wished).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , 8
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 4 . . 1 . . . . .
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 3 5 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X .
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 6 O O . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]

2. Move 12

For this reason, it would likely have been better for me to take the corner on move :w12:. If next Black made a two-space extension, I could attack it from d9, giving me a decent amount of territory and good deal of cooperation between my stones.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm12
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 1 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 1 . O . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]

That said, (like I mentioned previously in my post #42), I'm not really sure what the outcome would be in case of a diadiageima extension from Black.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm12
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 1 1 . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 1 . O . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . 2 , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , .
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------------[/go]

3. Move 20

Perhaps I could have gotten a big advantage by cutting. If Black played :b8: in order to have access to the center, it looks like I could kill the corner.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . 5 4 6 8 . . .
$$ | . . . . 1 X 3 . . . .
$$ | . . . X 2 O 7 . . , X
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm9
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . 8 . . . . . . . . .
$$ | 7 6 . 5 O X X X . . .
$$ | . 3 1 4 O X O . . . .
$$ | . 2 . X X O O . . , X
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm17
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . X 1 . 2 . . . . . .
$$ | O X . O O X X X . . .
$$ | . O O X O X O . . . .
$$ | . X 3 X X O O . . , X
$$ | . 4 7 X O . . . . . .
$$ | . 5 6 X . . . . . . .
$$ | . 8 O . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm25
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . .
$$ | O X . O O X X X . . .
$$ | . O O X O X O . . . .
$$ | . X O X X O O . . , X
$$ | 4 X O X O . . . . . .
$$ | 1 O X X 3 . . . . . .
$$ | 2 X O . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm29
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . .
$$ | O X . O O X X X . . .
$$ | . O O X O X O . . . .
$$ | . X O X X O O . . , X
$$ | X X O X O . . . . . .
$$ | 2 1 X X O . . . . . .
$$ | X X O 3 . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm32
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . .
$$ | O X . O O X X X . . .
$$ | a O O X O X O . . . .
$$ | . X O X X O O . . , X
$$ | X X O X O . . . . . .
$$ | X 1 X X O . . . . . .
$$ | X X O O . O . . . . .
$$ | . 2 . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .[/go]

There's a ko at "a" but Black has no ko threats, so Black dies. Can anyone find an improvement for Black in the above diagrams?

4. Move 28

This move by me is a real howler. I clearly should have played like shown below. I mean, this is exactly the move I described in my post #20 of my game aginst EdLee, so what the hell was I thinking when I played :w28:? :scratch: That's why I mustn't blitz out moves: I start missing elementary continuations.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . .
$$ | 3 X X X O X . .
$$ | . . 2 O X . . .
$$ | . . 1 . X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O O O O . . .
$$ | O X X X O X . .
$$ | . 5 X C X . . .
$$ | . . O 4 X . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ -----------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols
Post #113 Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:27 am 
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Current considerations.
Presently, I am trying to read the following fight in more detail.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O 3 2 O . . . . . ? ? ? . O . . . |
$$ | . . 4 O 1 . . . . . . ? ? ? . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 . 7 . . . . ? ? ? . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . , . ? ? ? . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . ? ? ? . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This initiates a struggle between Black's invading group and the White stones above it. Eventually, the fight should extend all the way down to marked area.

I am spending time to analyze this now so that I might get a sense of how to respond to topazg's last move. Ideally, my play on the right should not only be good locally, but also good with regard to indirectly stopping Black's invasion shown above.

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 Post subject: Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols
Post #114 Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:39 am 
Gosei

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@The Intrepid:
I'd like to know your response to the following. My reading is that White can make a heavy reduction to black's corner here, but this might still be a decent result for Black with some great outside strength. Who knows, though? I'm only 4 or 5k at the moment. :D

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm9
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 2 . . O X X X . . .
$$ | . . 1 . O X O . . . .
$$ | . . . X X O O . . , X
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols
Post #115 Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:26 am 
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Gotta give Intrepid some credit for following the spirit of Malkovich games. He thinks a lot!

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 Post subject: Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols
Post #116 Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:51 pm 
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@Marcus
I couldn't see anything that would save Black in either of the two variations below. What continuation did you have in mind?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm10
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 1 . . O X X X . . .
$$ | . . O 2 O X O . . . .
$$ | . . . X X O O . . , X
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm10
$$ -----------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 3 4 2 O X X X . . .
$$ | . . O 1 O X O . . . .
$$ | . . . X X O O . . , X
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . .
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , .[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols
Post #117 Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:41 pm 
Gosei

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@The Intrepid
I missed a liberty, it becomes ko again (I think; Long L shape), but this time with some local threats for Black to play with. However, White also gets a number of local threats, so it's not any better than your own reading. Lots of places to mess up, though.

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 Post subject: Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols
Post #118 Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:51 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 Prisoners: :w1: :b100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Planned sequence:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . 2 O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . . 3 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols
Post #119 Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:43 am 
Tengen
User avatar

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KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm58 Prisoners: :w1: :b100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #205: The Intrepid vs. topazg: The Pistols
Post #120 Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:01 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm60 Prisoners: :w1: :b100:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X O X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O X X X O X . . . , . . . O . , . . . |
$$ | . O X O X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
There's a problem with this way of protecting the cutting points. Specifically, the cut at O14 is not easy to deal with. Essentially all ladder are in Black's favor. Thus, a complicated fight would start after this variation.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -----------------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ X X . X O X O . . . O X . . |
$$ O X . O X B . . . O X X . . |
$$ . . . O . . . 2 O X X X . . |
$$ . . . . O . . . 1 W X . . . |
$$ O . . . . . . 3 . W W . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . 4 5 . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . , . . . . . B B . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . O . . B . . . . . O . . . |[/go]

However, my reading tells me that, although Black captures the three marked White stones, White gets much thickness (and territory) in the center, so the result should be good for White.

Of course, I could also choose to protect the cutting points with WO13, but that would give Black forcing moves at "a" and "b," which I'd rather not allow.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -----------------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ X X . X O X O . . . O X . . |
$$ O X . O X X . . . O X X . . |
$$ . . . O . . . . O X X X . . |
$$ . . . . O . . b . O X . . . |
$$ O . . . . . . . 1 . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . a . . . . |[/go]

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