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Offline SpongeBob
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #121 Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:34 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 4 . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline jts
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #122 Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:23 pm 
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Araban wrote:
@jts


Thanks.
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Offline Solomon
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #123 Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:22 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O 5 . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White probably has a variation similar to this in mind:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . 5 X 3 O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 X O 1 7 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O 2 6 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Sack a few stones to build a giant center framework. So here my goal is clear: to simply stop him from doing so. Is it important for me to ensure I eat the few stones he offers to me? Well, it's kind of big I guess, but really I think gaining control of the center gains higher priority here. Wouldn't you say something like the diagram below is better for me than taking the stones?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . 6 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . 4 X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 5 X O 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O 1 . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 7 . 3 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And this is the variation I have in mind. Of course, he could try to resist by:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . 3 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O 1 a . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But I would be quite content with this as well.
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #124 Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:29 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O 6 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i was afraid he might play that...
i guess this will be a complicated fight for both of us.
i will have to say that black has better fighting position for now..
but i believe that i am stronger player so i will come out ahead somehow..

i have no idea what he will play! and really dont care.
i will do my reading after he plays his move.

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Offline perceval
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #125 Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:50 am 
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Magicwand wrote:
...
but i believe that i am stronger player so i will come out ahead somehow..

i have no idea what he will play! and really dont care.
i will do my reading after he plays his move


i probably never be 3/4 dan but even if i somehow manage one day i ll never, ever be able to say things like this. :salute:
its a major part of the fun of MW's game for me

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Offline Tooveli
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #126 Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 4:56 am 
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Seems like M11 already ended up making White heavier (instead of well sacrificed). Now I like Black.

ps. Am I the only person who really wants to post childish things like

@Araban: :lol: :lol: :lol: can't wait till MagicWand reads that!
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Offline Solomon
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #127 Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:00 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #128 Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:00 pm 
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I'm not under the impression that Araban's 4-5-6-7 will get played soon. Exchanging inside moves for outside moves is always a last resort.

Just O9? Though running with a heavy group is painful...

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Offline prokofiev
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #129 Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:19 pm 
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A question regarding the lower side: Is White O2 painful if ignored? I ask this with whether M3 is a key point to aim at for later for black or is neutralized by the White O2 being some degree of sente in mind.
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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #130 Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:29 pm 
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prokofiev wrote:
A question regarding the lower side: Is White O2 painful if ignored? I ask this with whether M3 is a key point to aim at for later for black or is neutralized by the White O2 being some degree of sente in mind.


I think O2 has large endgame followups, but it's not anything like sente at the moment. Might be different if black was totally sealed in.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #131 Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:46 pm 
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O9

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Offline SpongeBob
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #132 Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:32 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . 8 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #133 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:17 am 
Tengen
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i expect below.. i save my group and same time distroy his right side..
i think i am ok with this variation.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X 2 1 4 , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X 3 O 6 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #134 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:51 am 
Tengen
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yes.. i know that black..can do this.
i am trying to find answer for that but i dont see anything good yet.
but i know that if i live comfortablely then i will win comfortably.
now i regret my choice. i could have made this game so simple...and now i am fight to survive..
not what i wanted..:(

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X 2 1 4 , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X 3 O 6 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #135 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:57 am 
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i have decided to play as below..
this is not too bad. i think i will be ahead with this variation..
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O 9 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X 2 1 4 , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X 3 O 6 . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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This post by Magicwand was liked by: SpongeBob
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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #136 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:30 am 
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Cool! MW played the :w58: that I would have played. :)
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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #137 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:45 am 
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I think the last few moves from magicwand demonstrate a very common way of digging yourself into a hole.

1. "Oh, I'll just force here and see what he does."
2. "He did that??? Obviously I must play one more time." (repeat as necessary)
3. "Oh crap, now I'm committed."

This is a mistake at any level of play. (Stronger players repeat step #2 fewer times before realizing they've reached step #3...)

The mistake is either (a), doing #1 when there actually is another move in the area you'll answer (i.e., your "forcing move" doesn't really stand alone), or (b), doing #2 one too many times (usually more than 0 times is too many).

It's difficult to come up with a reliable solution. I think the key is the word "obviously" in step #2; if you'd use that word to describe your move, definitely think about it a little extra.

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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #138 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:55 am 
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daniel_the_smith wrote:
I think the last few moves from magicwand demonstrate a very common way of digging yourself into a hole.

1. "Oh, I'll just force here and see what he does."
2. "He did that??? Obviously I must play one more time." (repeat as necessary)
3. "Oh crap, now I'm committed."

This is a mistake at any level of play. (Stronger players repeat step #2 fewer times before realizing they've reached step #3...)

The mistake is either (a), doing #1 when there actually is another move in the area you'll answer (i.e., your "forcing move" doesn't really stand alone), or (b), doing #2 one too many times (usually more than 0 times is too many).

It's difficult to come up with a reliable solution. I think the key is the word "obviously" in step #2; if you'd use that word to describe your move, definitely think about it a little extra.


I believe I'm a bit weaker than Daniel ... but I disagree about the last few MW moves digging a hole, at least not a deep one. I believe there is some solid strategy in the path MW is taking (knowing that Black is going to contest the center, White looks to give himself options for reducing other areas where Black is strong, such as the right side). I'm not quite on board with the sequences MW expects to play out, though ... maybe he will dig that hole. We'll see.
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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #139 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:00 am 
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I didn't mean the actual sequences, I have no idea about those, generally 4d mistakes are still playable-- just the attitude MW is showing. He seems to wish he hadn't done things this way.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Araban vs Magicwand II
Post #140 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:14 am 
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Magicwand wrote:
i have decided to play as below..
this is not too bad. i think i will be ahead with this variation..
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X . . X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O 9 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X 2 1 4 , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X 3 O 6 . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

ok.ok.. i lied. above variation looks ok but his middle influence will negate all my hard work and this is nogo.

i dicided to play other variation that might be questionable but i believe the only way to dig out of this situation.
a and b exchange before 4 in the middle may be better but i will have to think about that one.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: white 2 black 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . O O . O O X . |
$$ | . . X , O . . O . X . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O X . . . . X X . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . X b 3 X . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 X O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . a O X 5 1 . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X 4 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

this variation looks better than previous...

any question? comment? concerns? from observers???
i see that much discussion going on and kinda curious...

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The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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