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 Post subject: Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Post #21 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:07 pm 
Lives in gote
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Rank: malk-5k
KGS: go1986
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i think this is the biggest move on the board right now, even a little bigger than making a base with my top left stone, thats only one stone, and its good bait because it only cost one move, lets see what happens :study:

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Post #22 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:40 pm 
Honinbo
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1986 wrote:
i think this is the biggest move on the board right now
No, :b15: ( :bc:) is too easy on W; W can settle while taking a lot of cash from B:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$--------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . B . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . 1 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Instead of :b15:, B can keep the pressure on W with :b1: kosumi:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$--------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

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 Post subject: Re:
Post #23 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:39 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
EdLee wrote:
1986 wrote:
i think this is the biggest move on the board right now
No, :b15: ( :bc:) is too easy on W; W can settle while taking a lot of cash from B:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$--------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . B . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . 1 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Instead of :b15:, B can keep the pressure on W with :b1: kosumi:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$--------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . , O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Not 100% sure I agree. It's risky, but I'd be tempted to try something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 2 , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black has a lot of stones around, but a 2-space jump on the third line is pretty resiliant.

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Post #24 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:09 pm 
Honinbo
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emeraldemon,
I agree with you about :b15: -- :b15: in the game and the following :b1: kosumi are both playable for B --
it depends on what B wants.

However, if :w2: below, then B would play :b3: to expand the (a) areas; B can treat :bc: lightly:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . 3 . . a . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 2 , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

A better idea for W is to approach with :w2: as follows then settle with :w4:,
then as you mentioned the :wc: group is pretty resilient and B has nothing big now:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . 4 . . 2 . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Post #25 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:30 pm 
Lives in gote
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what a vigiorous first day of play here are my thoughts
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . b . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . e . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

a-e are possible moves i like for black, they seem like good direction for me and feel like good flow of play

although i was unsure about trying new fusekis in maklovitch games, i decided to go for it and it looks like a well organized set of stones have devloped so far, nothing looks crazy or overconcentrated yet, the simple move strategy,

the tengen radiates moyo and makes jumping out interesting, he has mapped out three areas and is probably sleeping on the next move, so all i can do now is think :study:

no score estimator this game, so i got the score guesstimator :) & i guess im leading

if i was him i would close my open skirt it the top left corner, thats my best guess for whites whites next move,

aw well i have been looking at this board all day, time to take a break

see ya around :ugeek:

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 Post subject: Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Post #26 Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:09 am 
Lives with ko

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Rank: 3k KGS
KGS: Nathan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok right now the game feels pretty even.

I know that I need to go on the East side somewhere but I am not confident i know the best way to go about it.

All my stones on the east side are pretty thin so my options are to play in a corner to secure a corner better or play in the middle of the east wall to force him to invade.

All my stones are on the fourth line right now so I want to play on the third line to feel a little more secure.

Below are several options I considered a and b seem the most obvious to spread my influence over the whole wall, although it leaves everything rather thin.

c secures the top corner and puts pressure on f17, i am just not sure if it is the biggest move available.

d would secure the bottom corner better making it more difficult for him to invade. and plays well with the bottom moyo

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . c . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . d . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Post #27 Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:32 am 
Lives in gote
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Liked others: 50
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Rank: malk-5k
KGS: go1986
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm17 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 1 , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


this is beautiful shape, its one of the moves i talked about in a previous post but i adjusted it for better balance

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 Post subject: Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Post #28 Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:59 am 
Lives with ko

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Rank: 3k KGS
KGS: Nathan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok here I am mainly considering too options in a and b below.

a secures the corner nicely and seems to be a large move.

b connects my stones on the east side to make a large but a little thin moyo.

I am choosing a because I think it is slightly larger but I am not too sure about that.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm17 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Post #29 Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:40 am 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 502
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Liked others: 50
Was liked: 12
Rank: malk-5k
KGS: go1986
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


now let me close this open skirt, this is good shape for the corner also :study:

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 Post subject: Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Post #30 Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:26 pm 
Lives with ko

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I like black. I think that black's last move was MUCH bigger than white's last move. Black's move weakens white's stones and takes territory. White's move takes territory without growing any potential or making any of black's stones weaker. I also don't really like white's bottom left white stones. There are a lot of stones there, but they don't take a lot of territory and they have a very tenuous hold on the corner territory.

Right now, white either defends his two space extension and prevents black attacking it or black finds it easy to split the left side.

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 Post subject: Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Post #31 Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 7:14 pm 
Lives with ko

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Liked others: 27
Was liked: 5
Rank: 3k KGS
KGS: Nathan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


For this turn I am mainly considering the open west side which looks like a valueable more or start an invasion in the southeast corner at moves such as c.

I am reluctantly playing a because it solidifies that side so well which looks very open to an invasion while there are still weak points in his moyo too invade later.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . c . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Post #32 Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:38 pm 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 502
Location: Coloradao USA
Liked others: 50
Was liked: 12
Rank: malk-5k
KGS: go1986
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i actually talked about this move too, in a previous post on my thoughts; so this makes the 3rd move in a row that i got to play where i wanted based on that post :D

this is sente too, good sente not bad sente

bad sente is when you help your opponent more than you help yourself

so now its time to put pressure on this group, and think off good ways to keep what i got mapped out, because i dont have to invade (im not behind) or fight too hard (the board is not complicated for black)

i like the board for black, i like my shape and global presence

:study:

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 Post subject: Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Post #33 Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:51 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 127
Location: MD, USA
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 5
Rank: 3k KGS
KGS: Nathan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Gotta respond to the peep

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 Post subject: Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Post #34 Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:10 pm 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 502
Location: Coloradao USA
Liked others: 50
Was liked: 12
Rank: malk-5k
KGS: go1986
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . 1 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


this is a basic continuation to take outside influence :study:

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 Post subject: Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Post #35 Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:50 am 
Lives with ko

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Location: MD, USA
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 5
Rank: 3k KGS
KGS: Nathan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm24 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I feel like this is an important point in the game. He is building a large moyo that if I play passively can become a problem fast.

I have to decide whether a response to 23 is urgent, or an invasion of the bottom corner is more urgent. At this poitn I feel the R12 group is ok and not in any immediate danger so the invasion of the bottom right seems more important.

I feel the move at Q6 does a good job of pressuring the bottom corner and working with the R12 group.

R6 is also an option but I am worried it provides too much influence into the center of the board to work with his other stones.

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 Post subject: Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Post #36 Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:29 am 
Gosei
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KGS: greendemon
Tygem: greendemon
DGS: smaragdaemon
OGS: emeraldemon
White left a pretty glaring weakness at S11. As black I would play there without hesitation.


This post by emeraldemon was liked by: 1986
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 Post subject: Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Post #37 Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:32 pm 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 502
Location: Coloradao USA
Liked others: 50
Was liked: 12
Rank: malk-5k
KGS: go1986
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


what was the purpose of that move?

i dont know what his plan is here, but i think i can ignore.... i think... hmmn, oh well im going to keep attacking this group; besides this is sente and i can think about whats his plan a little more :scratch:

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 Post subject: Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Post #38 Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:17 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 127
Location: MD, USA
Liked others: 27
Was liked: 5
Rank: 3k KGS
KGS: Nathan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm26 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The three stones are two important to lose so this is an urgent move. I am not feeling confident with this position.

I feel like I need to keep the R12 group alive adn hopefully not contained too small, and also exploit the thinness in the bottom right.

I am going to have to fight well to make this work.

Below is one unlikely possibility but black has many options at this point.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm26 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 4 1 3 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . 5 X O 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Post #39 Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:19 pm 
Honinbo
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Nathan wrote:
I have to decide whether a response to 23 is urgent
(Board rotated to save space.)
For this common shape, :black:(a) wedge ends in sente for Black, and :white:(b) wedge ends in sente for White:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm23
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 1 b X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . O a O O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
EDIT: Yes, but pro assessment is the game's :b25: is better than :black:(a).

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Post #40 Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:33 pm 
Honinbo
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emeraldemon,
emeraldemon wrote:
White left a pretty glaring weakness at :b1:. As black I would play there without hesitation.
Did you mean Black wedges at :w2:, instead of the peep at :b1: ? Because with :b1: (rotated to save space):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . W . 6 8 X . X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X 7 4 O 2 O O . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 3 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Broken shape for B:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . @ @ Y . Y . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X Y @ @ @ @ @ . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . Y Y Y . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
The broken shape for B occurs immediately when W connects with :w2: :
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . Y . Y . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . @ @ @ @ . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . Y . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
EDIT: Yes, but pro assessment is the game's :b25: is better than :black: wedge at :w2:; and the Black peep at :b1: is even worse than the wedge.


This post by EdLee was liked by: 1986
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