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 Post subject: Re: 106. kirby vs topazg
Post #81 Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:12 am 
Judan
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mw42 wrote:
... I'm not sure I see the gold he does there...

I don't see it either. If Topaxg attacks in the lower left - which is thin, but not really vulnerable, IMHO - he just makes white thicker there. As he realizes, this does not look good for his middle left group. Yet he is currently playing a joseki in the upper left which will make white strong up there too. This does not look good for black's middle left group.
I think Topazg's left hand should have a serious talk with his right hand.

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 Post subject: Re: 106. kirby vs topazg
Post #82 Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:14 am 
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hman wrote:
If I read this correctly you are saying (and I agree) you must use what I'd call your intuition, which is not exactly what I'd call emotions... at least in may native languages. Since English is kinda tricky for this stuff maybe the specific flavor of emotion vs. intuition isn't the same?


Intuition concerns knowledge of a situation whereas emotion concerns your state of being.

EDIT: Removed hide tags. I think it's okay if the players read this. ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: 106. kirby vs topazg
Post #83 Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:19 am 
Honinbo

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mw42 wrote:
hman wrote:
If I read this correctly you are saying (and I agree) you must use what I'd call your intuition, which is not exactly what I'd call emotions... at least in may native languages. Since English is kinda tricky for this stuff maybe the specific flavor of emotion vs. intuition isn't the same?


Intuition concerns knowledge of a situation whereas emotion concerns your state of being.

EDIT: Removed hide tags. I think it's okay if the players read this. ;-)


Thanks. Less curiosity is always better.

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 Post subject: Re: 106. kirby vs topazg
Post #84 Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:19 am 
Judan
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topazg wrote:
...
I've been going forwards and backwards between the shoulder hit and the invasion for a few minutes.


@Topazg:
Shoulder hit? You mean at J16? If so, why did you reject it?

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 Post subject: Re: 106. kirby vs topazg
Post #85 Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:49 am 
Tengen
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
topazg wrote:
...
I've been going forwards and backwards between the shoulder hit and the invasion for a few minutes.


@Topazg:
Shoulder hit? You mean at J16? If so, why did you reject it?


Because the shoulder hit will be gote, and I hope I can get both. If I can find a way for sente from here that is :)

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 Post subject: Re: 106. kirby vs topazg
Post #86 Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:53 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 2 . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . 3 O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hmmm, I may lose sente here, but I may not, there's some danger for White now:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 2 . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . 3 O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 O 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Of course, it's a tight line, but I think Black wins liberty races here. If White picks a sente option, I get connection aji for later:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 2 . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . 3 O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 7 . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 106. kirby vs topazg
Post #87 Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:58 am 
Honinbo

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think that this is the only move for white.

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 Post subject: Re: 106. kirby vs topazg
Post #88 Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:12 am 
Tengen
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@ kirby

i love your sig.
if you learn that then you will be 5 dan strong.

remember that you will find that when they expose their weakness.
and you will lose that when you expose yours.

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The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson


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 Post subject: Re: 106. kirby vs topazg
Post #89 Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:13 am 
Tengen
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KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 7 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I live with connection under aji. That's good enough to take gote I suppose. At least his position on the top is 3rd line, so reduction to some degree will be relatively possible. Lots of points I want right now!

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 Post subject: Re: 106. kirby vs topazg
Post #90 Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:23 am 
Judan
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To obs:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm36 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 O . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Maybe Kirby should let him connect...

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 Post subject: Re: 106. kirby vs topazg
Post #91 Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:28 am 
Tengen
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for obs only:
i like white's position below.
black's 3-3 invasion is premature IMO.
white is solid everywhere and black group on left side is a weakness that will cause problem for black later.
white need to play 'a' soon as he has a chance. then he will save one stone in sente and it is a big move for both black and white. maybe he should not play that :W42: or black should lose that hanne and go there first?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 6 . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 1 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . b . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: 106. kirby vs topazg
Post #92 Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:50 am 
Lives in gote

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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
To obs:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm36 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 O . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Maybe Kirby should let him connect...


I don't think so Joaz B39 is quite big and after W40 the game looks about even since it is black's move and black has no weak groups.

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 Post subject: Re: 106. kirby vs topazg
Post #93 Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:57 am 
Honinbo

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I must split black, because the benefit to me is so great. It is hard to calculate the point value of this move, but it keeps black's group on the left weak. When black's group is weak, I can more easily make future points.

Also, I wonder if there is something that I can do against the corner in the top left... :)

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 Post subject: Re: 106. kirby vs topazg
Post #94 Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:11 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
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KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . 9 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok, let's throw caution to the wind about the left hand group for now, and take this point because it's huge. I may come under a splitting attack, so I'm going to have to play with a bit of care ... but, I think, so is he, so that's ok.

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 Post subject: Re: 106. kirby vs topazg
Post #95 Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:56 am 
Honinbo

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Locally, his move is annoying. Globally, it seems like he is giving me a chance to fight back. How can I grab the "flow"?

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Post #96 Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:44 am 
Honinbo

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Okay, I'll admit that this move looks eerily similar to a move that lost me the "flow" in my last game against Magicwand. In that game, I didn't read out the corner status, and it cost me a lot.

This time, though, I have a plan - I promise.

First of all, it is clearly sente against the corner:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 4 2 1 . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 5 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


---
Sidenote:
By the way, as a side note, I am still glad that I played the last move I selected, but I was hoping that it was sente against the corner in itself - well, it doesn't seem like it was.

For example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | 9 4 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 6 1 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 7 5 X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | 8 b X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | a X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Doesn't work since a move by white at 'a' can be met with a move by black at 'b'.

Furthermore, while I can dream about this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Hooray for me!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I simply don't have an answer to some of white's other obvious responses:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Where do I play, now?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So I can dabble in other variations, but it just doesn't seem like I can kill black directly right here.

End of sidenote
---

Anyway, if I couldn't kill the corner, why did I play a move that threatens to kill the corner? Aren't I beating a dead bush (or is it a dead horse???)?

Well, here's how I see the situation:
1.) I am behind, on solid points by a good margin. If I try to compete for points directly, I will surely lose the race.
2.) He has a weak group in an area where I have strength on the left.
3.) He has just played a single stone as a reduction move on the top.

Based on these observations, I believe that the winning strategy for white in this game is to ignore getting points in a direct fashion, and attack black. The problem is, I need to attack in such a way that I can get future points from the deal.

So how do I attack black? Simply pressing against the black group does not seem like a good strategy:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Why? Because the exchange below strengthens black:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . B B . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . B . . O B . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O B . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black has strength in the marked area, so after the :w1: :b2: exchange, above, there is almost no attack left on the black stones.

Also, this move seems to be trying to make territory with my wall. I do not think that trying to make territory directly is a good strategy, because as I mentioned earlier, I am behind on territory. Plus, with his shoulder-hit reduction, it is hard to make a lot of territory in this position. I do not think that I should try to make territory with a wall. I should try to attack with a wall!

Ergo, what I would like to do is to play a capping move. It feels to me like it is a way to get the "flow". It feels to me like a move that Magicwand would play:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . W . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But can this work? :scratch:

The problem is, black seems to have an escape route, which puts my wall in danger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X W . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X W . 6 . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . W . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X W . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . W W . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hence, the purpose of my last move. With an exchange, first, against the corner, it seems like I can play the capping move:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . 9 . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 8 . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So that is the "hidden" (obvious?) purpose of the move I just played.

---

Future plans:
So let's say things go as expected, and I can get black to retreat from my attacking move. For example, let's say the board position is like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now what? Well, I would like to turn around and then attack the shoulder-hitting stone.

For example:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Will this work? I do not know. But I have thought about it a lot, and I know that I must attack to use the stones on this board effectively. White's position calls for attacking - not for blindly surrounding territory. So attacking is what I must do.

It will be interesting to me to see how things unfold, and to see if things happen in an unexpected way.

Let's hope I am victorious. :rambo:

_________________
be immersed


This post by Kirby was liked by 2 people: Chew Terr, phrax
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 Post subject: Re: 106. kirby vs topazg
Post #97 Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:56 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4511
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1589
Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Unusual, but sente. I'm wondering what the purpose is - the hane and connect I think would be sente, but either way it's gote for me, so not urgent. This means he's probably plotting something devious. Can't see the attack on the top stone, being helped here, unless that last move is a "get out of jail free card" for that wall - in which case, I can't understand why he didn't just play to split. Something fishy is in the air.

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 Post subject: Re: 106. kirby vs topazg
Post #98 Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:25 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 655
Location: Czechia
Liked others: 29
Was liked: 41
Rank: 1d KGS
KGS: Laman
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Diagram 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i can't stop wondering whether Kirby couldn't use this sequence for his goals (after some slight modification to the plan).

however, i am not entirely convinced i would play like white, i might try answering black shoulderhit by L16 and then aim at splitting attack between two resulting black groups

_________________
Spilling gasoline feels good.

I might be wrong, but probably not.

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 Post subject: Re: 106. kirby vs topazg
Post #99 Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:55 am 
Honinbo

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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . X O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O . O . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . O X . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . X . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Operation commence!

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 Post subject: Re: 106. kirby vs topazg
Post #100 Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:00 am 
Lives in gote

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I like the amount of thought Kirby put into this move, but I wonder if it misses the big picture. The way I see it, he is behind in territory and his strategy doesn't secure any. He will get little at the top and the center will be mostly dame. How can he win?

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