this is going to be another hard game to play... I know that my opponent's reading is very strong but i will play this game as i play moneygame in kiwon. 3 stones are big but white will have chance to win. I say that because professionals will beat me in 3 stones. so i will do same to my opponent.
Hello observers and kibbitzers, and welcome to our game.
First, some organizational remarks:
I've long been a proponent of great verbosity in the Malkovichk games. My honored opponent feels differently, so I'll try to write enough for both of us. Regretably, my comments may not be as useful as the few that he produces. I encourage questions to both players, especially to MW. If you get get him to discuss strategy, his comments can be very informative.
I'm going to use a modified Topazg color scheme. In the original TCS, as Topazg wrote, "I'm going to... beginner stuff in green, strategy in red, tactics in black, and counts/score estimations in blue". I find red type rather hard to read for more than a sentence or two, and also I prefer to reserve it for matters of some urgency, so I'll be using maroon for strategy. Blue and green shades will be similarly muted.
Now, to the game itself:
I've had many opportunities to watch Magicwand's games, and his style seems to be like this: 1) Get influence early 2) Protect his stones with deep haengma 3) Undercut any high stones that the opponent may play 4) Attack and kill something
It is the haengma that is MW's greatest strength, IMHO. Often, when watching his games, I'm inclined to kibbitz a cut. But after some analysis, I find that the stones are indeed connected an a roundabout way, or they can be separated but it results in an unfavorable fight. MW's stones often have no visible base, but they get life by being intricately connected.
I recall some of the games in which people have beaten MW, particularly Violence and Lovelove. In those games they didn't let MW get overpowering influence. They let him get some, but they got some also. Then they fought him in the middle and won. ( That is one of the possible defects in MS's style: if the opponent gets too much influence, his haengma falls apart. )
So that leads to my basic strategy for this game: Get influence, fight him in the middle, and beat him in those fights. Two of those three steps look easy. The third one will be fun. Or, well, fun for the spectators, at least.
So, given that overarching strategy, let's get down to details. Exactly what move is to be played?
In his book on fundamentals, Yilun Yang ranks the opening moves from most important to least. A 'first class' move, according to Yang, is making a move in a empty corner. We're past that stage, of course.
A 'second class' move is making a 3-4 shimari, or a kakari that prevents one, or a midpoint on a side that is a good extension from both adjacent corners. ( There is more to this, but I think we're closed book, so I can't go check ) The shimari/kakari he rates slightly better than the side.
The bottom ends up being a more efficient box-like shape. An extension up the side is a tray-like shape, too shallow to be efficient. Thus 'a' is said to be the primary direction to extend from this corner, and 'b' is the secondary direction.
According to Yang, if a move on the side is a primary extension from both adjacent corners, it is worth nearly as much as a play in the corner.
So the best move should be 'a' thru 'd'. Moves 'e' and 'f', according to yang may be theoretically worth slightly less.
If I'm going to contest MW for influence, then among those first four, I'll choose from 'b' and 'c'. It is hard to say that 'c' is a bad move, but few pros choose to play it. So, I'm left with 'b'.
At least that seems to be the most common, last time I looked at it on Daily Joseki.
But I expect MW will not go for it. It does not fit his style. I suspect that he will pincer. It will either be the low pincer with the intention of allowing me a small corner and taking the outside himself, or most likely, it will be a straightforward attempt at influence with the high pincer.
For Beginners. I don't think there's such a thing as a "best move" here -- it's simply too early in the opening. Many moves are equally good, for both B and W. (Some are equally bad, too, like A19 .) MW could well play the attach underneath, or he may decide to pincer , or he may tenuki. It's partially MW's strategy, and partially just his mood.
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
I suspect that he will pincer. ... or most likely, it will be a straightforward attempt at influence with the high pincer.
For Beginners. Again, not so simple. For example, the 2-space high pincer can (but does not have to) lead to the Magic Sword variations, some of which being very complicated and messy, with many different outcomes -- so it's not at all "a straightforward attempt at influence." (my emphasis) Perhaps an attempt to complicate things, yes, but Black can sometimes foil it by choosing simpler variations.
my first thought is to pincer. after few min of thought, i didnt like pincer because it might put me in a situation where i can not recover. since it is three stone handy...i will play slow till i build my power. below is what i expect for next few moves.
EDIT: I misread MW's posted G16, and thought that he was playing the more common F16.
I hadn't considered this. It is an old joseki that has fallen out of fashion. It may be older than the stones that are used to play it. It is relatively peaceful and short on tricky variations. That makes it rather simple for me, which, IMHO, is a slightly inferior strategic decision by my honorable opponent. Classic handicap go theory says that white should try to complicate. MHO just chose a joseki which has few complications, and those few have been resolved into known best play several centuries ago. So I can expect the opportunity to play several more moves knowing that hundreds of pros have not found fault with them. I like that.
Joseki note for beginners:
With his latest move, white slides out from the corner. ( This is not a bad idea. The classic response to a cap is a kiema. See http://senseis.xmp.net/?AnswerTheCappin ... nightsMove ) The down side of this is that black has approached the corner and not been rebuffed. Therefore, he goes for the opportunity to get the corner. White, of course, follows the proverb of 'hane when the opponent attaches', and also disputes black's attempt to get the corner. Black then protects with 6. It looks like this:
Now something around 'a' is the natural point for black, and both sides are stable, so both players usually look elsewhere. White has far less territory staked out than black, but he does leave with sente. 'B' is a nice point later if either side feels threatened.
It is an agressive move that undercuts black's potential eyespace. If white has a stone around 'c', it can be very effective. The down side of it is that white can clamp at 'd', cut off white's 3, and force the remaining white stones into a small corner. White really needs something around 'e' to be able to kill 'd' and thus prevent the clamp. In short, white needs something around 'c' and/or 'e' - preferrably both - to play 7 at B18. Since, in this game, he has neither, I expect to see the more conventional 7 at E18.
There are some subtleties to this position. I don't know all the details of the continuation, but I have seen this sequence before, the goal of which is to avoid the pincer.
However, since the lower left corner is Black's, I don't think the pincer will end well for White, and I don't think Black should avoid the pincer. There is another way to play this position: a certain trick play.
So you see, this position is not quite so easy as Joaz thinks it is. There's plenty of opportunities for a sufficiently motivated player to make things terrible, but I guess Magicwand doesn't want it to be complicated yet. If it were me, I'd play the trick.
Author:
EdLee [ Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:
Just to be clear, is at F16 (small knight) or G16 (large knight)?
ok..i guess there wont be any numbers.. it is better that way because i dont have to concentrate on numbering moves. edlee: my extension was little better than below extension IMO. that is why i played that move. to win 3 stone handy..you must have patiance.
I was only wondering because I first saw the text "G16" in your post, and then I saw both F16 and G16 in your diagrams. I was not questioning either one.
Author:
Magicwand [ Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:
Re:
EdLee wrote:
MW,
I was only wondering because I first saw the text "G16" in your post, and then I saw both F16 and G16 in your diagrams. I was not questioning either one.
i may have placed f16 but i dont remember making that mistake. i edited that thread many times so i can not be sure..
Thank you for watching this game...i wish i can play this game to my best potental to satisfy viewers.
disclaimer: what i play is not always best moves but it is my way of playing a best way to win. specially when playing handycapped game...i will play many moves that i wont play on even game.
Dang! On the third move, MW has gotten me into a joseki that I don't know. Or, well, I should say a joseki that I haven't memorized. What I do recall is that one must go for the corner, and that G16 is supposedly inferior to F16. I don't recall why, or how much. I'll have to think.
It is the haengma that is MW's greatest strength, IMHO. Often, when watching his games, I'm inclined to kibbitz a cut. But after some analysis, I find that the stones are indeed connected an a roundabout way, or they can be separated but it results in an unfavorable fight. MW's stones often have no visible base, but they get life by being intricately connected.
@joaz
I've been seeing this word a lot. When a good example comes up would you mind highlighting or mentioning it.
As I mentioned in a previous post - while erroneously thinking that my honorable opponent had played F16 - I noted that 2 approaches the corner, and 3 declines to defend it, so 4 is the thematic continuation into the corner:
When 3 is at 'a' - as MHO actually played it - the same reasoning applies, but with even more force: the corner is even less defended, so it is even more important to try to take it.
Even though the joseki is a bit odd with G16 instead of F16, it is so close that I think the same general character of that joseki applies for my next move. As in that joseki, only C11 and C12 are reasonable.
It threatens the killing move at C13, and thus increases white's influence in the top in sente. This kind of move - gaining influence in sente - seemed very much a MW type of move, so I was planning to play the shorter extension.
Now that MHO has actually played G16, the parallel attempt at a forcing move lacks punch. The gap at 'a' is too large.
This feels ungainly. 'A' does not work well with the corner, whereas 'b' leaves a gap at B10. If I should play 'c' as part of an attempt at a corner enclosure:
...he has insufficient room for a decent extension.
It turns out that if he plays first, the long extension looks good too. I don't have time to compose all of those diagrams, so I'm going to post this now. I'll try to come back to this issue later.
The upper left corner is stable, the two lower corners do not have good shimaris available. ( If one wre a 3-4, if might be different ) so playing in the remaining corner feels best. I could play one of the side midpoints, but they are not as urgent as the upper right.
I could pincer, but it gets in trouble too easily because it is too close to his solid group. So it is the tobi or the kiema. My general strategy was to be getting influence and then fighting in the middle, but so far my first three non-handicap stones have been on the third rank. It is time to get influence.
.)
, or he may tenuki.
at F16 (small knight) or G16 (large knight)?
