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| #208 Amelia vs. Spine http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=7938 |
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| Author: | Amelia [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | #208 Amelia vs. Spine |
Spine and me are both 15k. We are playing this game to learn more about how we think about our games. My personal goal: I will try to ask myself all the right questions, even if I get all the wrong answers! Nigiri :white:  Komi: 6,5 Scoring: Japanese Spine, do you want open or closed book? I don't care either way.
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| Author: | Bonobo [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine |
Amelia wrote: [..] We are playing this game to learn more about how we think about our games. I like this, scheun’n Dank!My personal goal: I will try to ask myself all the right questions, even if I get all the wrong answers! [..] Gruß aus Plattdeutschland, Tom |
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| Author: | Spine [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine |
Awesome! I am nervously-excited to play this game. I hope that all of L19x19 community can share a good laugh at my wild imagination when I attempt to predict what you are going to play next xD! This is going to be an excellent experience I think because it will force me to concentrate and play moves that have some thought behind it, instead of just plopping a stone down frivolously. Open or closed book? It matters not to me. I usually wont have any material in front of me when I play so I'll likely be closed book. Though I am currently reading a book for beginners so *shrugs* up to you dearest. For Nigiri I guess Odd. |
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| Author: | Amelia [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine |
Let's play closed books then. You are black. Let's have fun 
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| Author: | Spine [ Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine |
Best of luck! Have a great game! And away we go! An opening thought: I always feel I play better as black, maybe it's because I instantly feel I have the upper hand. When playing white even when playing my first move I already feel I have to respond to what my opponent has played. Let's see how the flow of this game goes. |
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| Author: | Amelia [ Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine |
I like the flexibility of the star point. This move also allows for a diagonal opening if he wishes to play so. I would like that. I plan to play be a bit more territorial on move 4, with a stone at 3-4. But first I'll see what he does. I want to try and keep my balance throughout the fuseki. |
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| Author: | Spine [ Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine |
I've been reading Jonathan Hop's So you wanna play go Vol 1 and now I'm on Vol 2. I read a few pages every night before bed and more on weekends when I have time. I remember having just read about the Shimari. I usually play two 4-4 moves for my opening, but decided I wanted to try something a bit different. I just hope that my direction of play is appropriate. This is my thinking thus far.
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| Author: | Amelia [ Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine |
I changed my mind about move 4. I'm guessing he wants something like this (he's probably read Opening Theory Made Easy too ).
I could let him do that and get some points of my own, but I want to get a bit in the way. So I'm aiming at this.
Next the following is possible:
I'm happy with that, as I can extend and approach his upper corner at the same time. |
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| Author: | Spine [ Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine |
That may very well be the first time that I actually guessed my opponent's move and guessed correctly! Mwahaha!  (mechanical laughter ceases as I now ponder the next move...) |
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| Author: | Amelia [ Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine |
Edit: Somehow the diagram doesn't seem to be working. Don't know why  ( It's because you had extra leading spaces before each $$. You need to proofread the text is exactly as it appears in other, working diagrams. Fixed it for you. -- Ed. )Here we go. |
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| Author: | tomukaze [ Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine |
Seems to work now
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| Author: | Spine [ Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine |
:w6: would have been where I would have played. Then again there is that adage 'your opponents good move is often your good move,' right? I suppose I can use that in reverse 'my good move can also be my opponents good move' there for I need to pay if first. Or something like that. In any case I obviously had a few options here: This crossed my mind but seemed like I was missing out on larger points first so I wanted to play else where.
Was probably my second choice. But I remember something about counting the spaces between the corner stones and play in between the largest space on the board. The stones on the left side and top are both 11 spaces apart while this move above would be between stones only 10 spaces apart. So the two moves to choose from 7(the move I played) and 7a (a move on the left side @ 10-C) were what I was really debating between. Ultimately I choose to play on the top because I feel I can play in relation to the stone at  . But maybe it would have been better to split whites stones and play 7a?
Or maybe its largely a preferential move and I'm over thinking it? PS: Is there any way to write text to the right of a diagram? |
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| Author: | Amelia [ Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine |
I've considered other options (sanrensei, K3, R13 and R14). It's hard to say what's better but this one point is quite big for both black and white, and I settle my stone right away. I want to avoid my usual mistake of leaving weak groups all other the place. |
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| Author: | Loons [ Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine |
Hmm, so somehow I see black 7 and similar a lot in actual games, but it seems like a mistake. Bottom right has two stones invested so if you build a moyo it should be there. For a similar idea my choice is 7 approach bottom left. Sniped by Amelia: I like the two space, but the other direction should be better. It's sente and cramps black's top right moyo. Afterwards black doesn't have a sente approach to build bottom right anyway. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Loons wrote: Hmm, so somehow I see black 7 and similar a lot in actual games, but it seems like a mistake. It's no problem at all, certainly not at these levels (I think no problem even at ~1k levels.)Bottom right has two stones invested... For a similar idea my choice is 7 approach bottom left. Reality check: in one search, the most popular pro move for  was (a),with 215 out of 50,744 games -- (e) was 5th (31 games); (h) came in 8th (9 games):
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| Author: | Phelan [ Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine |
Loons wrote: Hmm, so somehow I see black 7 and similar a lot in actual games, but it seems like a mistake. Bottom right has two stones invested so if you build a moyo it should be there. For a similar idea my choice is 7 approach bottom left. Sniped by Amelia: I like the two space, but the other direction should be better. It's sente and cramps black's top right moyo. Afterwards black doesn't have a sente approach to build bottom right anyway. I'm not sure about your 7, but I agree about the other direction being better. |
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| Author: | Phelan [ Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine |
Also, with regards to  , I wonder if it was better to play the hoshi as she did, or if going diagonal opening was still viable:
This or 'a', for instance.I think it's still playable, if you like diagonal openings. |
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| Author: | EdLee [ Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Phelan wrote: Also, with regards to Phelan, of course it's no problem -- no better or worse -- it's just mood, entirely up to W., I wonder if it was better to play the hoshi as she did, or if going diagonal opening was still viable:
If W approaches with , then B is happy to take the last empty corner (say, with  ), if he wants. |
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| Author: | Spine [ Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine |
OK so change of plans... xD I played  above because it just seemed better then:
My original desire was to extend from the Shimari as above, maybe I'll still have a chance. Although...
10 possible points is better than
8 Possible points But then again having the Sanrensei for white looks worse. Maybe this too isn't the right way to think about the situation Note: I am very impressed by the amount of comments from spectators thus far. I didn't think that a game from two ~15Ks would gather any interest or discussion. I am extremely thankful for them and am very excited to see all the comments upon completion of the game! Thanks in advance! |
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| Author: | Amelia [ Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: #208 Amelia vs. Spine |
I'm impressed too. And very curious. And a bit frightened. Thanks for all comments, I'm looking forward to reading them! This is what I considered:
First I thought: I don't want to allow black b. White 2 would be kinda lonely in black's moyo. None of the other points look like I need them that badly. That could turn out like this:
This double approach is painful for me. I can't pincer because of all the strong black positions around, living in the corner would be giving black too much thickness, running away isn't something I'm looking forward to.
I don't like this much... even if I tenuki and play 6 at black 7, black still seems to be ahead both in territory and thickness.
The idea of 10 is to extend on the right side in sente, then go back to the left side also in sente to finally play in the lower side. And build influence in the process. I usually approach a 4-4 stone with a keima. Here I prefer the high approach because I already have two stones on the right side and this looks harder to invade and cut for black.
Obviously this would be safer but I want to put more pressure on black because I need sente. The sad thing is, I don't know any joseki about the high approach on hoshi. I suppose something like that is playable?
Black is taking lots of territory, playing on the fourth line... maybe that's too much to allow? But I build influence in sente and get in the way of a big black moyo. Is that trade good enough for me? Well, let's see what he plays. Edit: Typos again. |
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