Here's the sgf - for others convenience. You may have lost but big bonus points for a creative opening
(Comments to follow).
| Life In 19x19 http://prod.lifein19x19.com/ |
|
| Critique of my game http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10931 |
Page 1 of 2 |
| Author: | TSLexi [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Critique of my game |
Hi guys! I'm a beginning Go player looking for a professional or amateur dan review of my most recent game. I understand the rules of Go, eyes, etc., but I really keep losing quite badly even to other beginners. So, here's a link to my most recent game on OGS. https://online-go.com/game/982306 Thanks! |
|
| Author: | S2W [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Critique of my game |
Here's the sgf - for others convenience. You may have lost but big bonus points for a creative opening (Comments to follow). |
|
| Author: | TSLexi [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 10:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Critique of my game |
Thanks for posting the SGF file...my computer freaks out when I try to download it. |
|
| Author: | S2W [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Critique of my game |
TSLexi wrote: I understand the rules of Go, eyes, etc., but I really keep losing quite badly even to other beginners. 1. From your ogs game history it seems you are playing quite a range of ranks: mid-teen kyus and even 9ks with no handicap - it's not too surprising that you are loosing to these players. So don't take it too hard. 2. As for the 20kyus - I'm always suspicious of really low ranks - there is a great deal of variability in strength at that level and you are more likely to win or loose by more as a beginner so the difference in strength is likely not reflected in the final score. 3. It's true you know the rules of go ... but go is so much more. Tactics strategy shape aji so much to learn - at all ranks. I'm kicking myself for this but ed lee's "go dots" analogy is perfect for you. You currently have 4 go dots - the rules. But your ~20k opponents have 8 or 9 - a bit of theory, a few more games, an idea of where to play in the beginning and a couple of trick plays. Not much extra knowledge but enough to beat a beginner who doesn't have those skills. So here are some ideas on how to get better: 1. You will (likely) loose a lot to start - this can be discouraging (again at all levels - see my posts). But it can also be hard to find an equal ranked player at low kyus. ... So try taking a handicap - the match will be more even, you will learn tricks from your stronger opponent and it will be more fun for your opponent too. (Playing even matches against stronger players is good - but expect to loose - don't get me wrong it's a good thing to do but it may also be good to try playing even matches just a couple of ranks above yours (say 2 rather than 10) - that way their play will be more comprehensible) 2. If you can, try to play multiple games against one player (not all at once but over a few weeks or days). Adjust your handicap till you are winning around 50% of the games. Then review why you are winning or loosing against that player and try to find a strategy to beat just them. 3 Play a correspondence game. Taking longer to play and think about each move should help improve your game - and teach you how to play better in the process. 4. There are particular opening patterns for the first few moves "fuseki" - learn one and play it in your games. If you play it enough you will learn the responses and how to counter them (or not and then you can play that way against your opponents). 5. Do some life and death problems - lots if people swear by them - personally I run hit and cold but they probably do help. 6. You tube (see nick sibicky for atarters). 7. Find a club if you can. If you can't, find someone online at your level and chat during your game (make it unranked and talk about each move). 8. Play more, have fun. ... 9. Learn the monkey jump - it's just so much fun to play. |
|
| Author: | TSLexi [ Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Critique of my game |
I play anyone who's up for a game. I know I should lose at at least 50 games just starting out. I actually want advice on this specific game, because I have been noticing I am losing by less every time, because I now understand the importance of getting and defending territory. |
|
| Author: | S2W [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Critique of my game |
No problem - the fundamental issue with this game is you are trading security (very slow solid play) for potential ( the ability to get points in the future). You nail down the center - but take 4 moves to do so - while your opponent stakes out a big piece of potential territory on the bottom. You continue to build in the center - but let your opponent grab all the outside in the process. A second problem - but a lesser one is that you went for the center - generally it's better to start building from the corners then the sides then the middle (proverb: corners are gold, sides are silver, the center is grass and grass is for cows) The funny thing about go is that you can't always trust the proverbs. Up to move 4 or so I'm sure that some people would argue that you could still play and win (though I think most would agree you were behind). After that though you needed to stop your opponent from grabbing the remaining big points on the outside. I'm sure there is a poker analogy here - but I don't play enough Hold'em for it to make sense  Anyway here's a more detailed review |
|
| Author: | S2W [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Critique of my game |
Ps - I dont want to sound too harsh - it's good to try things out - otherwise how do you know if it will work? As a confession I had a theory that the Keima (a knights move jump between the stones like in chess) was the most "efficient" move in go - and that by playing keimas (and nothing else) I was bound to win. I was very wrong 
|
|
| Author: | EdLee [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hi TSLexi, Welcome to Go and to this forum. Your opening is quite artistic. I have one suggestion for you at your current level: continue to play as many games as possible. Maybe, when you have finished around 100 games, then come back and let's look at your moves at that time, in the future. You may also enjoy The Second Book of Go, by Richard Bozulich -- it's available via Kiseido publishing. I'll try to work on some analogy to share with you -- please see Understanding (post 88). |
|
| Author: | schawipp [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Critique of my game |
Yes, in your opening you are creating a nice looking pattern. However, Go is not primarily aimed to assembling artistic patterns for oneself but to place stones in an efficient and competitive way. Move  maybe a representative example for a non-efficient play: Assumed that white plays there instead you could easily verify that a white stone on J11 at move 33 is more or less captured automatically. Even if white get the chance to play a second time there it is IMHO impossible to rescue the J11 stone if black wants to capture it (unless black falls asleep or has taken some dangerous drugs). Therefore, is not needed there, instead you can try to claim something bigger somwhere else. After move  (i. e. after 28 black moves) you are claiming one point in the center and maybe 10-15 points in the vicinity (in the actual game it was 9 additional points at the end). That is less than 0.5 points per move. In the same time, white has claimed "fourth line territory" virtually along all borders plus some extra points in the center which roughly sums up to 200 points (about 7.5 points per move in average!). Also he played on all 3-3 points in the corners, so it will be very difficult for black to invade and get a living group there. Thus, in general you will have to play a more challenging style. As a good start try to play in a way that you are splitting the opponent's groups and connecting your own groups. |
|
| Author: | leichtloeslich [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Critique of my game |
TSLexi wrote: Hi guys! I'm a beginning Go player looking for a professional or amateur dan review of my most recent game. [...] here's a link to my most recent game on OGS. https://online-go.com/game/982306 This has got to be some sort of practical joke. On the off chance that it isn't, here's some useful advice:
|
|
| Author: | Uberdude [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Critique of my game |
Is this the C&C Red Alert silo base attack applied to Go? @TSLexi: Play your stones further apart. Stop playing Go like it is Etch-a-Sketch. Throw stones all over the board like Jackson Pollock. |
|
| Author: | oca [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:53 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Critique of my game | ||
Hi, [edit] That's really funny, compare your game at move 18 with that : Dont' click if you are on iOS with safari, see Edlee's post below http://brokensymmetry.co.uk/go-clock [/edit] That's the clock opening !
|
|||
| Author: | EdLee [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Code: http:\\brokensymmetry.co.uk\go-clock Warning: Beware of this link if you're on Safari on iOS.This link hijacks Safari's controls -- goes Full screen and hides the menu -- and it's a pain to try to close it, EVEN if you restart Safari, because Safari automatically returns to the last page visited -- Probably a good idea to disable Safari's default behavior ? |
|
| Author: | oca [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Critique of my game |
 oups... sorry EdLee... I wasn't aware of that problem as the link is ok on windows with Chrome.I edited my post to add an image for whose must not click on the link... |
|
| Author: | tekesta [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Critique of my game |
TSLexi, welcome to the road to becoming smarter than you already are  If you want to begin playing Go in a competent way, I suggest the following. First, replay pro games on a regular basis. Go puzzles are a little easier to solve when you have some background information to help you make educated guesses. Also, you will develop an instinct for how to play the game. You can pick whichever player you like best, although it is better to begin with a player that usually plays a thickness-based style; since you will be playing mostly handicap games (games in which you are given a compensatory advantage to make up for your present lack of Go ability), it pays to know how to use thickness. It can be a historical one such as Hon'inbō Shūsaku, Hon'inbō Shūei, Huang Longshi, or Hon'inbō Dōsaku. Or a modern one such as Lee Chang-ho, Yoo Changhyuk, Awaji Shuzo, or Cao Dayuan. Just about each and every one of these pro players apply good playing habits in their games. The more games you replay, the better, but just 1 or 2 games a day is a good way to start. Do not worry if at first you are not able to replay one game all the way through. It does take some getting used to. As you replay more and more games, your brain will be better able to absorb new information coming from these games. Second, do go puzzles on a regular basis, especially tesuji and life & death. There are also fuseki, jōseki, middle game, and endgame, but these are really just applications of the first two that I mentioned. Remember that quantity is important. Do lots of easy problems to build analytical ability. Doing difficult problems will only retard your progress. I suggest obtaining a book such as Richard Bozulich's Get Strong at Handicap Go. You can begin to refine your skills at handicap Go by doing the puzzles in this book. Finally, play actual games on a regular basis. KGS is one real-time server online. Pandanet IGS and Tygem are a couple of others. There are also turn-based servers, if you do not have time during the day to play a full game. You can play against a computer program as well as against other human beings. Most Go software is programmed to play at strong amateur or even professional level, with different ranges of difficulty. Some are found online. Here is one. http://www.cosumi.net/en/ Try this régime out and see how it works for you. Of course you will lose many games at first, but you will improve steadily and soon you will be winning about 50% of your games. |
|
| Author: | Bill Spight [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 1:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Critique of my game |
TSLexi wrote: I play anyone who's up for a game. I know I should lose at at least 50 games just starting out. I actually want advice on this specific game, because I have been noticing I am losing by less every time, because I now understand the importance of getting and defending territory. Not to splash water on that idea too much, but in this game you are too concerned with getting and defending territory. In a fairly typical game on the 19x19 board each player will play about 120 stones and make about 60 points of territory. That's about 1/2 point of territory per play. But we know that the average play gains about 7 points of territory. That's a big percentage difference. Players get to keep only about 7% of the territory that they gain. What's going on here? What's going on is that most of what a play gains, on average, comes from preventing the opponent from making more territory, not from making your own. The opening is the time to sketch out potential territory, not to make territory. Territory typically gets solidified in skirmishes. That's a problem for beginners, because they tend to get creamed in skirmishes. I know. I remember when I started out losing three or more groups per game. But I did not lose heart. Quote: Faint heart ne'er won fair lady. That's a go proverb.  Also: Quote: It is better to die like a lion than to live like a dog. OC, it is better to live like a lion than to die like a dog, as well. Also: Quote: De l'audace! Encore de l'audace! Toujours de l'audace! -- Danton, 7 dan.
|
|
| Author: | TSLexi [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Critique of my game |
Ok, here's my next game after that, and I think I did a lot better this time around: https://online-go.com/game/984976 I got a lot more territory and prisoners this time around, and I think I did a good job at securing influence and territory, but my opponent did better. And most of my stones are alive! |
|
| Author: | Uberdude [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Critique of my game |
Stop drawing pretty pictures and pay attention to how many liberties your stones have. |
|
| Author: | TSLexi [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Critique of my game |
Uberdude wrote: Stop drawing pretty pictures and pay attention to how many liberties your stones have. I did this time around. Also, in this game, I would have won if not for the komi rule! https://online-go.com/game/985127 |
|
| Author: | Bill Spight [ Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Critique of my game |
Playing with yourself is naughty.
|
|
| Page 1 of 2 | All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ] |
| Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|
