Life In 19x19 :: 2k even game, lost by 4.5

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2k even game, lost by 4.5 http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12595	Page 1 of 1

Author:	emeraldemon [ Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:	2k even game, lost by 4.5
I put my thoughts in the sgf, any advice?

Author:	Joaz Banbeck [ Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2k even game, lost by 4.5
Move 22 has to be S17. Move 44 should be D11 or E11. If he doesn't have even room for a two-space extension, lean on him. My overall impression is that black ambled to a victory, never really earning the points that he got. Unfortunately, you were an enabler when he did this. Try to make just a few more incisive moves, and you'll have him on the ropes.

Author:	EdLee [ Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Move 22 has to be S17. I disagree. at S17 feels soft, too easy on . Not sure what's the 'best' reply -- which pincer ? how to get out ? -- but in the game has fighting spirit. ( at S17 could be OK; I just disagree W's only option is S17. ) I like either of your variations better than the game move; not sure what's best. Standard; good to know it. P17 instead ? Bad shape: you bump yourself into B, help B make good shape, "hane head of two." Better to get out directly: P14, Q14, etc. Terrible shape for W. Strange feeling: L14 instead. Continue to push, reduce W's libs; threaten double hane next. - Standard bad habit. Feels wrong direction, and very slow, yes. Quote: Move 44 should be D11 or E11. I disagree. The game move seems OK; threatens further keima slide toward B's lower left corner. strengthens W first, then go back to deal with B; seems reasonable.

Author:	Joaz Banbeck [ Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re:
EdLee wrote: Quote: Move 22 has to be S17. I disagree. at S17 feels soft, too easy on ... S17 is not soft. It is making the proverbial fist. It is worth something like 11 points simply as an endgame move, and a bunch more due to the fact that it completely resolves any white eyespace concerns. It is the kind of move that Kagayama would advocate.

Author:	Uberdude [ Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2k even game, lost by 4.5
I don't like the suggested s17 and would not presume to think Kageyama would approve. It is worth reflecting that there will likely be a bias in pro games of seeing the m17 checking extension answered at s17 because the pro will less often play m17 when it is an overplay and other answers like pincer, or indeed tenuki, are appropriate. See the recent Ke-Lee match for example (h17 in game 3 was a mistake and tenuki punished iirc, whilst h17 in game 2 was correctly answered by coming out). P.S. I can't not comment on that bizarre non joseki in the lower right. Probably o2 should be p3 or maybe o4 so Black's tenuki can be easily punished.

Author:	EdLee [ Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:50 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: S17 is not soft. It is making the proverbial fist. It is worth something like 11 points simply as an endgame move, and a bunch more due to the fact that it completely resolves any white eyespace concerns. This is true for the local situation. This local shape is very common. Most likely, emeraldemon himself is well aware of W S17. That's not the issue. It is about the global, whole board perspective. S17 may not be W's ONLY option given this board. For some boards, W S17 is a good move. For others, not so much. For this particular board, W S17 feels soft to me.

Author:	dhu163 [ Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2k even game, lost by 4.5
1-11 seems reasonably normal. 6 tempting to extend on left somewhere and 10 a little flat, try R6 maybe. 12-18 seems fine, 18 too defensive so huge I think is good - black is much weaker than white, when W has q14 to get shape at Q14 seems natural to me :w34: disaster for white - W is still quite strong here compared to B, using this sort of shape is only for emergencies when close to death, and could be at P17 instead attach at Q14 (and hope to get P17 in to keep attacking, or comfortably go out to the centre) can be useful to defend against O15 aji seems good to me - locally good shape, B not yet alive ambitious making another group ... maybe should be at D11 first encouraging B to attach to your stones and make both sides stronger. Not to try get a wall (B's top group hard to attack as it can live underneath, and W's right not quite alive), but squeeze B a little, and then go to your 2 space extension a bit risky to let W take D14 in sente ... interesting. I think it should be much deeper to reduce B (Q10 normal, or even invasion if you feel Q10 is insufficient). This won't make any territory for W, is a bit weak (far from W's stones), and doesn't impact B much :b55,57: good punishment. W is in serious trouble now a bit soft, why not O5 ... B can't ignore the hane (62) for long, and O14 is always a weakness if you don't protect best chance to win the game. Not easy for B. Maybe time to sacrifice with H3, O5, J2. Top left corner still has aji Up to W still in trouble Nice try in lower left. At maybe there was something with D1, A4, B1 B plays very solidly :w118:. If you can't block on the second line, E14 should be at D14. it still aims at cutting points :w140: small, black can still hane A7 for ahi Your ouches around move 200 is inevitable when 2 groups are separated by a black stick ...

Author:	Uberdude [ Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:16 am ]
Post subject:	Re: 2k even game, lost by 4.5
Some comments on the rest of the opening, plus another viewpoint for those Joaz/Ed points: 5: You should be glad he played another move so close to his 5-4, it's inefficient. There is no rush to invade it. If he makes a regular shimari then this stone becomes stupid, if he doesn't then later you can think about invasion. 6: good 8: I can't call it a mistake (I often see pros make 2 low extensions on the same side nowadays) but I might pincer instead. 10: Ditto, r6 tickles my fancy. 12: fine 13: weird pincer here 14: good 15: block this way is not really a joseki with the 2 space low pincer as black can't make a good connected shape 18: Get out of joseki auto-pilot! Think about your moves! Why is this move a joseki with the one-space pincer? Because if you solid connect at p3 (which was actually an old joskei move) then the n4 hane doesn't work so well as black's n3 cut is well defended by the m3 pincer and weakens the corner eyespace significantly, so that fight is not promising for white (black s3 becomes sente). It also creates a followup for spare eyes at m2 attach under. Also with both pincers you can push at o4, but then black may push and cut inside. So with this pincer I am tempted to simply connect (and take a liberty, very important) at p3, then black n5 is awful shape (m4 hole) so probably continues with o4, n3 is imply for you and then m5 seal. But that's gote so you get the perfect reduction at q10 or p10. And if he tenukis you can come out and split him much more powerfully than o4 in the game. 19: crap move. Still lots of corner aji. 20: good, but you should also be thinking "Hey! you didn't connect your wall to your pincer" so moves like o4 or n5 could play in the area black should have played. However there is a feeling they are slow and make o2 inefficient (and even if black plays he can't get a good result as you play q10 reduce), and you might end up splitting on dame whilst black gets the right side. So another idea would be to attack with something like q7 though that feels rather speculative. But this area has a big flashing unfinished situation light for me. 22: good, builds top left moyo. s17 would be soft to allow black j17 extension. Also consider j17. 26: Uh oh! As you say very bad to not consider his q18 peep. That is the meaning of the m17 approach, to make this block bad. I like q14, accept that that black group is now strong with the corner push, and lean on it to get your group out and attack m17. 28: Do you know about p18 resistance? (doesn't work here though as black has ladder). You could think about offering a trade with n17, though that does make s18 wasted. 30: hmm, so you want to sacrifice the corner to seal? 34: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! If you are going to play those ugly last 2 moves you should at least l15 block to build your moyo and sacrifice the tail (if black accepts sacrifice with n16 atari, he might try to eat all with m15 atari and push. 35: my heart will not go on. 37: weird, k15 or tenuki. 38: I suppose making best of a bad job. 39: should hane. 40: not needed. 42: not the answer to life, the universe, or the best move. What black move are you afraid of? h17? c7 looks biggest; both players would like to extend there threatening more. q7 vague attack maybe, but r11 is alive and top white still a little unsettled. 43: c9 should be enough for black to win simply now. 44: fine (agree with Ed, not Joaz). 46: why not extend d7 if you play the last move? But I suppose this is ok too. 48: hmmm, this is big for corner and b12, but I want to extend. After extend there is fun in black's corner 50: What are all these unresolved local shapes doing? If you want to make this group strong, play d7. If you want to attack black e12 you can't let him get d14 in sente. 51: So you telepathically controlled black to make him follow your plan and not play d14? 52: Hurrah! But is g10 g13 a good exchange for you? Would g10 d14 be a good exchange for you if black played better? 53: Lame, d14 please. 54: why? Where are points? Or attack/defence? Did you count? Now would be a good time. The important areas to me are: - d14 (huge for points and strength, after which h12 f13 looks like a cut. - can c4 live? - how about q7 or soemthing on the right, attack the wall of 3 a bit, make black connect on dame and try to live with a few points on right area or connect out.

Author:	Bill Spight [ Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2k even game, lost by 4.5
A couple of comments.

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