It is currently Sat Sep 06, 2025 11:16 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Super close game, middle game woes
Post #1 Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:29 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 230
Location: London
Liked others: 288
Was liked: 65
Rank: OGS 2k
OGS: Joellercoaster
They say, "learn joseki, lose two stones". I'm working through Robert Jasiek's Easy Learning Joseki at the moment and feeling like my brain is full of ideas... I feel like it's not the joseki and post-joseki things that are causing the problem, it's that I can't back them up with middle-game powers.

This was one of the first games where I really went into it with a post-fuseki plan and had the plan happen - it was, roughly, "build some strength at the top, then scoop out the base of the group at top left and harrass it".

The plan happened, but it definitely didn't happen well! My opponent fought hard and outdid me tactically quite a few times - I'm no longer sure if the plan was bad, or (as I suspected at the time) my execution was weak.

I actually felt like I had lost the game some time around move 140, and that feeling did not leave me until the game was over - I still thought I had lost, but it turned out I'd won by a point and a half (thanks to my opponent graciously pointing out an auto-scoring error after I had already accepted the loss).

I feel like I am particularly missing a whole bunch of wisdom about what to do once the middle game fighting starts to happen.

As always, any clues for myself and my opponent, who reads L19, would be gratefully received.



Attachments:
3564706-228-joellercoaster-zbase.sgf [2.5 KiB]
Downloaded 623 times

_________________
Confucius in the Analects says "even playing go is better than eating chips in front of tv all day." -- kivi
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Super close game, middle game woes
Post #2 Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:43 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 450
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 189
Rank: BGA 3 dan
joellercoaster wrote:
As always, any clues for myself and my opponent, who reads L19, would be gratefully received.



From a purist point of view, :w12: should be a low approach. The resulting white formation on the upper side is not ideal.

There is an argument for playing :w22: at F4. Black's immediate invasion probably helps you. :b35: is like :w18:, not quite as good as it looks.

:w46: is quite bad. White can't achieve much here, while plays on the left side are significant. :w66: also seems out of focus. By :w80: Black seems to have an easier game ahead.


This post by Charles Matthews was liked by: joellercoaster
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Super close game, middle game woes
Post #3 Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:35 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 230
Location: London
Liked others: 288
Was liked: 65
Rank: OGS 2k
OGS: Joellercoaster
Charles Matthews wrote:
:b35: is like :w18:, not quite as good as it looks.


I have to say, when I replayed through the game, :w18: struck me as looking disappointing the second time.

Quote:
:w46: is quite bad. White can't achieve much here


I think I play poorly timed or considered invadey/reducey moves like this pretty often... thanks very much for food for thought.

_________________
Confucius in the Analects says "even playing go is better than eating chips in front of tv all day." -- kivi

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Super close game, middle game woes
Post #4 Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:03 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
joellercoaster wrote:
They say, "learn joseki, lose two stones". I'm working through Robert Jasiek's Easy Learning Joseki at the moment and feeling like my brain is full of ideas... I feel like it's not the joseki and post-joseki things that are causing the problem, it's that I can't back them up with middle-game powers.

This was one of the first games where I really went into it with a post-fuseki plan and had the plan happen - it was, roughly, "build some strength at the top, then scoop out the base of the group at top left and harrass it".

The plan happened, but it definitely didn't happen well! My opponent fought hard and outdid me tactically quite a few times - I'm no longer sure if the plan was bad, or (as I suspected at the time) my execution was weak.


Your plan succeeded. It was not a very good plan, however. Black could have defended against it better.

Quote:
I actually felt like I had lost the game some time around move 140


Well, the game is not over until it is over. :) I actually think that you did very well to come back after Black destroyed your framework in the bottom left.

More comments. :)



Edit: Found the game losing play. Added a variation. Go to move 217. :)

Main strategic focus: The frontier of frameworks is big.

Main tactical focus: Avoid strengthening your opponent or weakening yourself.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


This post by Bill Spight was liked by: joellercoaster
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Super close game, middle game woes
Post #5 Posted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:58 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 553
Liked others: 61
Was liked: 250
Rank: AGA 5 dan
Two things struck me in this game:

1) W played a number of what I might call speculative invasions, which looked interesting but did not actually work. Moves {92, 104, 116, 148} in particular. If these invasions were backed up by reading, meaning W thought they actually worked even with best play by B, then I have no criticism. But it seemed more like W did not read anything out and was simply hoping for a B mistake. That happened half of the time, rewarding some bad plays. Other times B responded well and W lost a lot of points.

Exercise for both B and W: find refutations to W116 (R2) and W148 (S15).

2) Both players made some very small endgame moves. These mistakes may seem minor, but collectively they can make a big difference in the final score. Try to pause sometime after the middle game fighting ends and make a mental list of the largest endgame plays left on the board. Try not to get distracted by smaller stuff. A few examples:

B97 was moderately large for B, but threatened very little. W should not let this move become sente. Playing first somewhere in the lower right corner would be immensely larger than any local response.

B115 was worth only one point in gote. B can play M2 and P3 in sente, so there was no need to defend here.
W146 was worth only a few points in gote. B correctly ignored this move to make a much larger play.
B181 was a wasted move, compared to T12, which was perfectly safe.
B217 was worth -2 points in gote (no defense was needed).


This post by mitsun was liked by: joellercoaster
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Super close game, middle game woes
Post #6 Posted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:14 am 
Beginner

Posts: 2
Location: Maine, USA
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 0
Rank: OGS 6 kyu
Universal go server handle: zbase
Thanks for these comments (I played black). I did feel like I messed up that bottom left corner. I wasn't sure the best defense for W186, and came out of the game thinking I really need to study defending that corner joseki, in the event of an invasion. And I am not sure why I played B217. I see now it was not needed.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Super close game, middle game woes
Post #7 Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:17 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
zbase wrote:
Thanks for these comments (I played black). I did feel like I messed up that bottom left corner. I wasn't sure the best defense for W186, and came out of the game thinking I really need to study defending that corner joseki, in the event of an invasion. And I am not sure why I played B217. I see now it was not needed.


In the bottom left corner you made an eye vs no eye situation. :) Black 189 was unnecessary.

Main focus: Fighting spirit.

You showed your fighting strength when you destroyed White's framework in the bottom left quadrant, and took a sizable lead. But then you let him take it back. You had the ability not to let that happen. Had you called upon your strength and maintained your fighting spirit, you would have been victorious.

If you call upon your strength, I imagine that you could improve by two or three stones in a matter of weeks. :)

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.


Last edited by Bill Spight on Wed Jan 27, 2016 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

This post by Bill Spight was liked by: joellercoaster
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Super close game, middle game woes
Post #8 Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 7:20 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 230
Location: London
Liked others: 288
Was liked: 65
Rank: OGS 2k
OGS: Joellercoaster
Guys, thank you for this input as well - I have been leading a hectic life the last week or so and haven't been able to play out the variations for myself yet (which is my normal way of assimilating new stuff).

The "plays on the borders of territories" thing is so obvious in retrospect, but it's a huge blind spot!

I'm going to sit down with a board and work through all of this - beware, there may be more questions :)

_________________
Confucius in the Analects says "even playing go is better than eating chips in front of tv all day." -- kivi

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group