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Game review request of a 2 stone handicapped 9k vs 7k game http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=12629 |
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Author: | gostudent [ Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:28 pm ] |
Post subject: | Game review request of a 2 stone handicapped 9k vs 7k game |
I am black at this game. My biggest trouble at this game is that I am seeing white building a lot of influence, and I do not know what is the best way to reduce it. My "invasion" at left is bad (as it leads to the death of the lower left corner, very bad), and my invasion at bottom is also bad, as it leads to losing the lower right corner. However, I did that because I am worried that I will be sealed in by white -- although I was still sealed in at the end. Some specific questions: * W15 should be at G15 in the joseki, but I do not know what should I do to handle this deviation? Push through at F16 and then come back at E17? * I was not sure where to play at B26. I ended up playing at M4 because I am thinking maybe I will be able to invade at H4 later -- of course, this invasion ended up getting me a lot of trouble. ![]() * B28: my initial thought is to connect at D6, but then white will have very good influence and I'll be sealed in. So I tried to break through by D9... which ended up badly (because I lost corner while taking care of the left group.) * B34: if I come back to the corner by playing at the position B4, would the left group die? * I was surprised by the attachment at W53. How should I respond to that? * I tried to reinforce the corner at B62. Would there be better choice? * B64: I played there because I am worried that white would seal in that side. Unfortunately, that give white a shape point when he/she played at W67. What should I do here instead? * B78: I think about cutting at O6, but it looks like that white can happily sacrifice some stone and seal me in. So I am not sure what I should do -- I ended up trying to play move to support an invasion at H4... and of course it didn't work out too well. * B104 I thought about playing at L5 instead, but it seems that will put my bottom group at great danger. Is my assessment correct? * B106: I want to do some reducing... and of course, my choice of move is bad again. ![]() * B120: If only the cut would work.... sigh..... Btw, at what point of the game did I completely lose the advantage of the two handicap stones? |
Author: | EdLee [ Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:59 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Hi GoStudent, ![]() ( W D14 is honte, but perhaps a bit slow. ) ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() You asked when you lost your 2-stone advantage. A better question is to look at all your mistakes, and learn from each. Like this ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() you basically lost a move here, completely voluntarily. See (*) below. ( R10 neighborhood is the last big open area. ) ![]() ![]() of course W cannot allow you to turn it all into cash. When you played high with ![]() That's the meaning of your high ![]() If that was not your plan, you should've played low, taking cash. ![]() ![]() If you simply connect with ![]() Big difference. ![]() ![]() If you make the tiger's mouth, it's better yose. ![]() Did you also consider the attach at o8 ? ![]() Did you also consider the two local hanes ? ( For ![]() ![]() I don't know what's the best local sequence for B. The questions are rhetorical -- just consider how much you read in this local fight. ) ![]() ![]() ![]() See (*) below. For example: please read Toothpaste -- Study and start to understand about 'broken shapes' -- that's the main reason behind your ![]() and the disastrous result for B by the time of ![]() Quote: Btw, at what point of the game did I completely lose the advantage of the two handicap stones? (*) In this particular game, this question is not very meaningful.Rather, study your mistakes. Try to understand the gaps in your Go knowledge. |
Author: | EdLee [ Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:58 am ] |
Post subject: | |
gostudent wrote: * W15 should be at G15 in the joseki, Is there a typo here ? Not sure what you mean.gostudent wrote: * I was not sure where to play at B26. Not a big problem.Try to get a sense of which are your biggest problems. For example: your ![]() ![]() much more severe than where to play ![]() Passing at ![]() ![]() |
Author: | gostudent [ Thu Jan 28, 2016 9:30 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: |
Thank you for the feedback. EdLee wrote: gostudent wrote: * W15 should be at G15 in the joseki, Is there a typo here ? Not sure what you mean.gostudent wrote: What I mean is that, the move number 15 by white is typically at G15, if white does no tenuki. EdLee wrote: * I was not sure where to play at B26. Not a big problem.Try to get a sense of which are your biggest problems. For example: your ![]() ![]() much more severe than where to play ![]() Passing at ![]() ![]() When I was playing the game, I actually know that ![]() ![]() Am I correct in this estimation? Thanks. |
Author: | EdLee [ Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
gostudent wrote: What I mean is that, the move number 15 by white is typically at G15, if white does no tenuki. I'm not sure what you mean:![]() W played the joseki move in the game: connect at C15. What do you mean ? |
Author: | Uberdude [ Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:08 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Game review request of a 2 stone handicapped 9k vs 7k ga |
gostudent, how about making a diagram with http://www.hiddema.nl/diagrammer/ to show what you mean? (I too am baffled by your co-ordinates). |
Author: | Schachus [ Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:31 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Game review request of a 2 stone handicapped 9k vs 7k ga |
Clearly, he means ![]() ![]() |
Author: | Uberdude [ Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:50 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Game review request of a 2 stone handicapped 9k vs 7k ga |
Ah, that makes more sense. I thought he might be talking about move 9, in which white blocked the wrong side. White should play d17 to make sense of his 2 top side stones. Move 17 at g15 would be one of the local continuations from this joseki (ignoring white's k16 stone) but is a favourite bad move of kyu players and black can just happily answer at g17 and it's a good exchange for black, not white (white's shape is still weak after it with many bad ajis inside his fake territory/moyo). If white wanted to continue here then f16 push may actually be best, trying to make sense of the k16 stone. I do not think of move 17 as a deviation from correct play, it is probably better than what gostudent thought of as the "correct joseki" move at g15. I would probably just play g17, white extend, then tenuki, as he did. His choice of tenuki to r5 might be bad though, I would think about white's moyo more, maybe k4 or c7 or q5. |
Author: | gostudent [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Game review request of a 2 stone handicapped 9k vs 7k ga |
My bad -- I am indeed talking about ![]() ![]() I saw the move G15 from common joseki dictionary. Also thank you for pointing out ![]() |
Author: | skydyr [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:41 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Game review request of a 2 stone handicapped 9k vs 7k ga |
No one said that ![]() ![]() Edit: Notice that after ![]() |
Author: | Bill Spight [ Mon Feb 01, 2016 10:57 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Game review request of a 2 stone handicapped 9k vs 7k ga |
gostudent wrote: Also thank you for pointing out ![]() skydyr wrote: No one said that ![]() ![]() Uberdude wrote: His choice of tenuki to r5 might be bad though, I would think about white's moyo more, maybe k4 or c7 or q5. I agree that ![]() ![]() |
Author: | ez4u [ Thu Feb 04, 2016 6:54 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Game review request of a 2 stone handicapped 9k vs 7k ga |
I would like to comment on 44. This was an extremely unfortunate play IMHO and I think that it hasn't been mentioned yet. After Black exchanges 42 for 43 (a very dangerous play by White), Black plays 44 in the upper left, inducing White to play 45. White 45 patches up the gaping hole in White's wall and suddenly the center starts to look very promising for White. Black compounded things by ending in gote with 48 but I think the real damage was done with 44. I think that pushing at 1 below, threatening to hane at the head of three stones is the only move here. If White patches the hole in the upper wall, Black gets his hane and dominates the center while still holding three out of four corners. But if White extends, Black just pushes again. Now if White extends a second time (see below), Black pushes through the gap at the top and cuts. It seems like Black can capture something, even if White lives. So White has to connect instead of extending and Black is able to hane at the head of four stones instead of three. The variation below would have been a great success compared to the game. |
Author: | ez4u [ Thu Feb 04, 2016 7:01 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Game review request of a 2 stone handicapped 9k vs 7k ga |
Also notice Black 50 in the game. When White played 49, Black can answer with 2 below. If White continues with 3 (White 51 in the game), there is a flower-viewing ko in the corner as shown below. However, if White blocks in the corner instead of 3, Black gets to play at 3 first, preventing White from connecting so easily in the center and leaving the three White stones there still subject to attack. |
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