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handicap game, asking for advice
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Author:  jorden [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  handicap game, asking for advice
I played black.

Lost a capturing race and forgot to kill two enemy groups. My own thoughts below, did I miss other big things?

:b10: r17 = pressure on white
:b14: s12
:b22: p8 stronger/no weakness
:b26: didn't see this
:b32: hane at l4
:b50: j4 = less liberties for white
:b68: tenuki was ok r17 better?
:b74: just extend down for more liberties
:b78: connect at m3!! else white lives with white 87.
:b94: hane other side j17

:w1: :w37: no harm done, better :b138: connects at p13.
:b1: :b50: and after: I should've read out the capturing race better, remove
outside liberties first?
:b1: :b62: instead of this I could've killed the white group?

General conclusion: do more tsumego. Agreed?



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Author:  Koosh [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: handicap game, asking for advice
For 10, it's important to note that the move you played (the knights jump into the center) isn't usually a good response to this slide. The connection between the two black stones can be cut later, and getting your stones cut in handicap games is one of the more difficult situations to handle. This is the biggest reason.

I agree with your thought of playing at R17 instead, but what do you do when W jumps at P14? Thank about it.

I'd recommend trying B R8. Keep these two groups split and build a base there. W will be become very busy saving these stones.


As you've said, O5 should have been at L4.
Author:  EdLee [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi jorden,

:b10: R17 is a simple and good choice, yea. B probably has other good options, too.
The game move has some shape problems.

:b14: S12 is not a choice. Either hane as in the game, or just pull back at R11, but not S12.

:b16: S17.

:b24: o7.

:b26: o12, maybe.

:b28: M4. The game move has shape problems (e.g. L4)...

:w29: ...or this. :)

For :b10: and :b28:, please see ElephantsEye .

:b56: Were you thinking of some ladder ?
If W runs with J5, what do you do ?
There's no ladder. Do you see why ?
:b68: Bad habit, bad feeling -- bumping your head against W ; bad shape for B.
Yes, tenuki.

( :b70: - :w71: ) Also bad habit.

:b74: Block at L2, yes -- it reduces W's liberties.

:b76: Yes, M3. :)

:b78: Big move.

( :b80: - :w81: ) Same habit as :b68:, :b70: .

:b82: Same problem with :b80: -- you're not looking at the whole board, the global situation.
Very little (almost nothing) to gain locally -- these moves are too small. Tenuki. (e.g. F17).

( :w83: - :b84: ) Same problem with :b82: . Follow-itis, as Bill calls it.
Blindly following your opponent, not looking at the whole board, deciding for yourself what's the biggest.
Tenuki. (e.g. F17).

:w85: Same problem as :b82: - :b84: .

:b86: Better at F2 ( more points for you ).

( :b90: - :w91: ) Same habit as :b68:, :b70:, :b80: . Better to jump directly to F15.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: handicap game, asking for advice
Black 158: Fill an outside liberty for White. Then White cannot atari the Black group (without placing his own group in atari). Eye vs. no eye.

Quote:
General conclusion: do more tsumego. Agreed?


Learn the basics.
Author:  Koosh [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: handicap game, asking for advice
Quote:
Learn the basics.


@jorden, keep in mind that this advice applies to everyone; it's even thrown at dan players by pros often enough. Basics are huge. If you need help finding resources you can ask here too.
Author:  jorden [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
EdLee wrote:
:b56: Were you thinking of some ladder ?
If W runs with J5, what do you do ?
There's no ladder. Do you see why ?
:b68: Bad habit, bad feeling -- bumping your head against W ; bad shape for B.

I was thinking about a ladder, when there was a net.
Ok, no bumping. Pointing that out is helpful, I wasn't aware of that.

@koosh & @bill Yeah, I'm a bit confused by that remark 'Learn the basics.'. Was there a *sigh* involved? Does it mean something in general, i.e. play better go, play the best move? Or do you mean I have to focus more on one of the basics such as counting liberties and cutting/connecting? I'm afraid I'm asking for something so obvious now...
Author:  Bill Spight [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Re:
jorden wrote:
EdLee wrote:
:b56: Were you thinking of some ladder ?
If W runs with J5, what do you do ?
There's no ladder. Do you see why ?
:b68: Bad habit, bad feeling -- bumping your head against W ; bad shape for B.

I was thinking about a ladder, when there was a net.
Ok, no bumping. Pointing that out is helpful, I wasn't aware of that.

@koosh & @bill Yeah, I'm a bit confused by that remark 'Learn the basics.'. Was there a *sigh* involved? Does it mean something in general, i.e. play better go, play the best move? Or do you mean I have to focus more on one of the basics such as counting liberties and cutting/connecting? I'm afraid I'm asking for something so obvious now...


There are books that cover basics, such as Sakata's Tesuji and Anti-suji of Go. Also, Sensei's Library covers a lot of the basics. http://senseis.xmp.net/ :)
Author:  jorden [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: handicap game, asking for advice
jorden wrote:
There are books that cover basics, such as Sakata's Tesuji and Anti-suji of Go. Also, Sensei's Library covers a lot of the basics. http://senseis.xmp.net/

See, there is something of a paradox in there after all. Recommending a library to learn the basics :). But, I'll go and get the Sakata book. I thought that Tesuji were very complex things and wouldn't have thought to try this book for studying basics. I'm already very good in anti-suji...

Thanks guys, it's fun to learn new stuff.
Author:  dfan [ Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: handicap game, asking for advice
Cho Hun-hyeon's Lectures on Go Techniques (3 books) are also great books for learning the basics. They increase in difficulty as they go, but the first book will prevent you from making a lot of DDK mistakes. The detailed explanations of what's wrong with the incorrect moves are great. I love Tesuji and Anti-suji of Go but I'd say its difficulty is greater, maybe between volumes 2 and 3 of LoGT.
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