Life In 19x19
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Got totally destroyed!
http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15608		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ian Butler [ Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:29 am ]
Post subject:  Got totally destroyed!
Well, I got completely destroyed, what a bummer.
Haven't got the heart (or time) to review it myself just right now. I'd appreciate if someone stronger could take a look and tell me where it went wrong.

Don't mind my desperate attempts later in the game. I knew the game was lost if I didn't attempt something out of the box and it failed, but I had to try or the game was lost.

61 the losing move? But if I block off my territory, I'm still behind :sad:

Man this games makes me feel bad. I hope I can learn something of it when I get the heart to review it.
Author:  EdLee [ Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:05 am ]
Post subject: 
:b25: Q17.

:b37: Strange shape. Locally, G16. Globally, C3, D10 neighborhood.

( :b39: .. :b43: ), :b17: Slow.

:b59: ( and probably earlier ) lost sight of the big picture. Maybe H9 vicinity.

:b61: Slow.

:b67: Locally, bad shape.

:b69: Almost a pass.

:b79:, :w80: Toothpaste. ( Re: :b67: )

:w92: T18.

:white: 122 Take.

:white: 126 M10

Miai: ( :black: 201 ), ( :white: M8 ), ( R11 problem ).
Author:  Ian Butler [ Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Got totally destroyed!
Thank you, EdLee. Already valuable insights. I should've reduced instead of following white in the wall building.

When I look at the game situation, I still feel okay playing with black at around move 32.
After move 40, not so much.
After move 62, it's pretty over.
Author:  Ian Butler [ Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Got totally destroyed!
Most of all I should look where it went wrong this game and learn something so it doesn't happen again.
I'll review it myself, too, tomorrow, maybe with the help of Leela.
I'll use your comments, too, EdLee. And perhaps post my findings here.

N°1: identify the main problem
N°2: identify plays that prevents such problem.
Author:  Bill Spight [ Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Got totally destroyed!
Some top of the head comments:

:w6: A surprise. :)
:b7: Reasonable.
:w8: Interesting. :) It is not easy to find a good reply. Maybe :b7: should have been been the other hane.
:b9: Reasonable. But now it is easy for White to sacrifice :w6: and :w8:.
:w10: Heavy. It is now harder to sacrfice the :w8: stone. And this move does not threaten much.
:b11: A pincer on the right side looks good. Locally the cut is better. If White sacrifices the :w6: stone, he leaves behind a cutting point at R-06.
:w12: Heavy.
:b13: Not bad. Black has the lead. But isn't R-09 better?
:w14: White makes a base, but is overconcentrated.
:b17: Tenuki time, don't you think?
:b19: Right or wrong, you almost have to hane, or what is the point of your previous play?
:b25: Strangely, the other block may be better. For one thing, the P-10 stone will work with either wall. For another, the strength of the White group in the bottom right may support a reduction or invasion.
:b33: Threatens nothing. Better to descend to S-16 with sente, threatening S-18, and then come back to H-16, or F-06.
:w34: Small.
:b39: Not so big. Better S-16, then reduce the left side.
:b45: Slide is better locally.
:b51: Atari first.
:b55: Nice play!
:b61: Better reduce the left side, Maybe J-08. Or defend the top right with M-11. In either case, play S-16 first, OC.
:w64: Uh-oh.

Edit: Corrected :b17: to :b19:. And :b15: to :b17:.
Author:  Gomoto [ Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Got totally destroyed!
:b19: is a big mistake, has to be at O6
O6 is urgent, if there would be no urgent move you could consider 3-3 invasions, approach moves or a shimari in the top right at this time in the game. The lower right stones are strong, K4 achieves nothing, much too small and passive.

:b37: is another big mistake, has to be at S16 or O6 or D3
O6 is still urgent
S16 is a big sente move
D3 is the correct move in this corner configuration
Author:  EdLee [ Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hi Ian,

You're welcome.
Quote:
1: identify the main problem
2: identify plays that prevents such problem.
My experience has been it lies with the fundamentals, the basics, the foundation.
But saying that is like a tautology.

It's many problems ( from my experience ).
Maybe one way is to ID the usual suspects that account for a great majority of the cases... :study:
Author:  Ian Butler [ Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Got totally destroyed!
@Bill
Tenuki should always be first option and somehow I forgot that important rule!
Interesting variations at 33.
13: R09 was considered but I was a little worried about a possible pincer at R11 and a fight breaking out. Of course in hindsight I could've just jumped out and the fight is much in favor of black.

@Gomoto
You are right, 19 is totally not ambitious. Better (besides the obvious hane that I missed) would be to approach the lower left corner and get K4 in place more naturally after F3, if white plays D6-C6.
If pincered, I could fight or jump in the corner or jump out once and then either attack the corner or the pincering stone.

37: D3 would not be on my radar. Interesting move.

@EdLee
Of course there are many mistakes at play during every game, but I try to learn at least 1 thing every game. I can't learn from every single mistake in every game, I think, so I try to focus on the biggest mistakes first and then slowly cut down the number of mistakes.



So, I think if I have to learn something from this game it's the following:
- I use my time unwisely and play too blitz-y. I have the bad habit of starting to play even faster when I'm in trouble. It's like a fast-forward urge you'd have during a horror film or something. Bad habit that I need to unlearn.
- Some of my moves were very non-ambitious, so it's logical you fall behind that way.
- Had no reply to white's moyo-increasing moves. Instead I wasted a few playing small, almost neutral moves. I was thinking about cutting off his group, but cutting&connecting was not the main play during this game. Moyo building was, and I lost at that.

Thanks everyone for their input!
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