I thought
here broke either ladder but since both groups are in atari black can play 
here. If he simply captured one group the other ladder would be broken.| Attachments: |
New Setup.sgf [659 Bytes]
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| Ladder potential at move 80? http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3567 |
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| Author: | jts [ Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Ladder potential at move 80? |
This is my first game back after two months of go-abstention. It ended up well enough so I don't need a full review (not that I would say no, mind you), but I'm still a little confused about the correct move after 80. In the game, I captured the upper dumpling, because I thought I had read out some way for him to capture my cutting stones. But looking at it again after the game, it looked like I had nothing to fear from trying to capture both groups in two ladders at the same time. Thoughts? Am I missing something? [deleted] |
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| Author: | Shaddy [ Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ladder potential at move 80? |
There is actually a move that allows him to break one ladder, but here it doesn't matter because even if one ladder breaks, black's strength in the area is enough that the group won't escape (black gets to choose which ladder breaks). Try to find the move! |
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| Author: | jts [ Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ladder potential at move 80? |
Hmmm... I haven't found it yet. |
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| Author: | Abydos1 [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:40 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Ladder potential at move 80? | ||
I thought here broke either ladder but since both groups are in atari black can play here. If he simply captured one group the other ladder would be broken.
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| Author: | Dusk Eagle [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ladder potential at move 80? |
There's a cool story on senseis about this problem, so I thought I'd link to it.The situation is a bit different, as in jts' game both white groups are already in atari, so one group or the other has to die. Anyway, if you're sick of looking for the answer, read http://senseis.xmp.net/?TheFirstRecordedDualLadderBreaker. Edit: Actually, it seems the diagrams containing the answer are given first, then the short story. |
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| Author: | jts [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ladder potential at move 80? |
Dusk Eagle wrote: There's a cool story on senseis about this problem, so I thought I'd link to it.The situation is a bit different, as in jts' game both white groups are already in atari, so one group or the other has to die. Anyway, if you're sick of looking for the answer, read http://senseis.xmp.net/?TheFirstRecordedDualLadderBreaker. Edit: Actually, it seems the diagrams containing the answer are given first, then the short story. Gosh, I feel so dense. I still can't find a move that saves either group, if I just follow through with the ladder. Is it the same basic move shape - keima from one ladder, 2-pt jump from the other? |
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| Author: | Shaddy [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ladder potential at move 80? |
Play out the ladder a little bit first, then it should appear. |
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| Author: | jts [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:31 pm ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Ladder potential at move 80? | ||
Okay, found it.  I think, though, that the line where one of the ladders breaks is better for B than what was actually played, since playing the ladders out hugely strengthens B. (Which I guess is what Shaddy was saying, originally.)
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| Author: | Shaddy [ Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Ladder potential at move 80? |
Pretty, isn't it? I think this move is one of the ones really worthy of being called magical. (Others are like Sakata's myoshu, or the invisible tesuji Araban talked about in a thread a long time ago) |
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