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A loss against a 9k
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Author:  blade90 [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:31 am ]
Post subject:  A loss against a 9k
Here is a game I just played, I was black and lost by 13.5 points.
I think I used my time pretty good because at then of the game I had only 1 minute left.
At the beginning it already started out with an unexpected move, anyway it went surprising well even thought I made a big mistake at around move 30 or so.

I added comments to the game, as always I would like some comments on my mistakes and maybe where I had the right idea but ended up using it wrong.



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Author:  aurik [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A loss against a 9k
P9 seems ok, though I might have been tempted to pincer instead, something like q13 because it is more severe. If he runs out, great time to play an extension from r9. If he leans on r9, you get to strengthen that stone while attacking. If he counter-pincers at say r7, p9 splits him in 2.

Your instinct response to r4 (diagonal approach) should be r3. In this case, the result looks good so you should play it. This keeps those white stones under severe attack. Even if he manages to live along the edge, you should end up with overwhelming outside influence which at this early point in the game is a fantastic result.

R6 is too close. Something like Q7 maybe. If you're going to shoulder-hit, though, try the outside hit at P6. (See also the relationship between Q3-O4-P6, a good shape). This will induce him to live very small along the edge, if he can live at all. At this point in the game, a small sealed-in life for W is extremely good for you.

@B17: p7 instead of r7. Seal him in. R7 doesn't work for him: R7 S7 R8 S8 S6 Q9 R5 R3. W will probably die.

@B55: wrong direction. You want the wall from the 33 invasion facing the open side.
@B61: just protect your cutting points. P19 isn't going anywhere and I think he will still need to play the S16 exchange to live outright here. Which because of the proximity of the Q13 stones will be gote for him.

@B75, 77: should be an approach to one of the corners. These moves are far too timid.
@B83: N15 is a stronger play, K18 is very submissive.
@B85: not necessary. W can capture a stone next with Q14 R15 R13 S13, but that stone wasn't important anyway.
@B99: too close. Attack this on a larger scale, or even better just ignore it. Tenuki, and come back to it later. On this board my biggest question at the moment is who gets the bottom; around J4 looks pretty huge for white as it is an extension from both sides. Better to get there first.
@B112: unnecessary. For the most part, the game is settled.

A few more important plays remain.
* C3 remains an interesting point after E3 has been played. My guess is that you can either get a major reduction, or live inside here.
* You can still break into W center in a major way at M14. N15 is better left unplayed, as none of M15, N15, or N14 work to cut you off. Later, L15 is unnecessary.
* I think W L17 actually kills the B group. Even after L18 and M19, N18 still kills.
Author:  judicata [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A loss against a 9k
I'll try to comment more later, but starting at move 38, you were right that you had some options. B39 is a clever move regardless. :clap: It is a tesuji, and it almost works here. In any case, after that move, black can still get a lot of profit from attacking the white group, which only has one eye. Black can probably manage to get stones on either side of the group. This would create some territory along the bottom and maybe build up enough strength to start attacking white's Q10 group (making territory on the other side).

That said, if you think you can kill--go for it. Here, you just misread a pretty difficult sequence--that happens, and you'll improve over time (I also suspect your opponent didn't see B39, and got a bit lucky on your shortage of liberties). You were thinking about the right things though, so I say great job! :tmbup:
Author:  aurik [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A loss against a 9k
Actually on second read B39 looks like it works. The key move is B45 @ P3 instead of Q4. Now you have a double threat to cut at Q4 and escape with N4, either of which dooms the W corner.
Author:  hailthorn011 [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A loss against a 9k
blade90 wrote:
Here is a game I just played, I was black and lost by 13.5 points.
I think I used my time pretty good because at then of the game I had only 1 minute left.
At the beginning it already started out with an unexpected move, anyway it went surprising well even thought I made a big mistake at around move 30 or so.

I added comments to the game, as always I would like some comments on my mistakes and maybe where I had the right idea but ended up using it wrong.



I probably would have resigned after move 50 or so. But I think you showed admirable courage in playing it through. And a 13 point loss isn't too bad. But these are just the opinions of an 11k.
Author:  judicata [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A loss against a 9k
aurik wrote:
Actually on second read B39 looks like it works. The key move is B45 @ P3 instead of Q4. Now you have a double threat to cut at Q4 and escape with N4, either of which dooms the W corner.


Ah, I think you're right. I think white can make a ko with white making the first threat, but there isn't a threat big enough.
Author:  judicata [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A loss against a 9k
Some more comments.
Author:  Puppycakes [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: A loss against a 9k
Here are my thoughts.
Author:  blade90 [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 5:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A loss against a 9k
Wow so many comments from so many players, thanks to all of you!
I actually learned a lot from just reading these comments.

I can see that you all spend a lot of time on reviewing, so I will use a lot of time rereading them :study:
and to play of course :D
Author:  judicata [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A loss against a 9k
blade90 wrote:
Wow so many comments from so many players, thanks to all of you!
I actually learned a lot from just reading these comments.

I can see that you all spend a lot of time on reviewing, so I will use a lot of time rereading them :study:
and to play of course :D



Some of us SDKs like to return the favor of reviews we've received, so we jump on the opportunity to review DDK games because we can actually be helpful. A 3k or 4k can helpfully contribute to, say, a 7k or 8k game, but not nearly as much, IMO.
Author:  ez4u [ Wed Apr 13, 2011 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: A loss against a 9k
Puppycakes creates a nice position for analysis at move 42 in the game.

In the original game, Black collapses in the bottom right.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc The Original Continuation
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X O 2 O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 3 X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X 4 X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . X 7 O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But there alternatives for both players here.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc The Pup's "Best for White?"
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 X X O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 8 O O X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X O 3 O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X 5 X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 7 O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Puppycakes gives this continuation through White 5 as probably best for White here. However, if Black stays calm and plays 6 as a ko threat, White will have to live with 7. Black captures two stones with 8 and has a magnificent position in the lower side and center at the cost of only about ten White points in the corner.


Is there more?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc This seems to work for Black...
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O O X c |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . 4 X O 3 O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . a 1 2 X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . b X . X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


In PC's analysis this is bad for White because neither "a" nor "b" give White enough time to play from the outside to stop Black "c".


If the outside does not work, then we have to try the inside...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Additional resources for White
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a O O X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X X O O O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O X X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X 3 X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X 1 O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


However, White also has the inside resource of the ko after 1. This is interesting because it is early in the game and neither side has any good ko threats. Black answers with 2 and the exchange of 4 for 5 looks natural. Next Black may play 6 in order to "flatten" out the White stones above and put pressure on them. The Black stones at the bottom have enough shape to fight with confidence if White tries to pull out the two stones later with "a". In addition, the play at 6 allows Black to catch the two White stones in a geta with "a" if necessary.



Can White do better?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc No alternative?
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X O O X 6 |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . 2 X X O O O O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 1 O X X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . b c X 7 a O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 X 3 O . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Even if White foresees what is coming in the previous diagram, there is nothing to be done about it. White can not exchange 1 for 2 before playing 3 in hopes of inserting the play at 5 before taking the ko. Even after the exchange, Black turns at 4 anyway. If White plays 5, Black responds at 6 and, after 7, calmly connects at 8. If White now plays atari at "c", Black recaptures the ko and White's group is in atari with no ko threats. If instead White tries connecting at "a", Black captures at "b" and White has only one eye.


The final verdict is that Black missed a chance here. :grumpy:
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