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New club member, how strong is he? Help me beat him! http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3973	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Allen [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:	New club member, how strong is he? Help me beat him!
Hi everyone! Our club received a new member a couple of weeks ago from Korea, Mr. Lee, and so far he's beaten everyone pretty handily. He said that he used to play when he was younger, like in high-school, but hasn't played for many years so doesn't know his rank. I think he's in the dans and also I think he's taking it easy on us lol because he plays so quickly yet still manages to win by such huge margins >< Our small uni. club is pretty casual anyways so we don't usually worry about handicaps stones and such, but I'd like to get an idea for my own personal motivation (also I don't want him to get bored playing us ). Also, his opening seems a bit unusual, like he plays moves...Just differently and he chooses some unusual joseki at times. Can anyone give me any insight into this? Last, any advice on how to beat him?! Like, what are his weaknesses or such. Also, I have a couple of questions on my game below. Thanks a bunch and sorry for the long first post. Lee & Sam, 16k Lee & John, 11k Jessica, 6k & Lee Me, 5k & Lee Move 40: How can I handle this situation? The shoulder hit joseki above 37 seemed bad to me because I'd end with a lot of weak points on my wall, thought it's make the black wall too useful. Move 41: How to play after this? Move 46: Is this move that big? It seemed small after Mr. Lee played away. Move 82: Big mistake, everything died after this lol. And I thought I was doing okay up to then! Hiro, 3k & Lee Move 15: How do I reply to this? Is there a joseki for it? Mr. Lee seems to like attaching at 11 alot and this sort of shape after 15 is common.

Author:	EdLee [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:
Allen wrote: any advice on how to beat him?! Take this as an excellent opportunity for everyone in your club to improve.

Author:	FootofGod [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New club member, how strong is he? Help me beat him!
I could easily believe that he is 1 or 2 dan. The joseki that kept occurring with the attachment is a recent korean joseki. Pretty much anything but connecting after you hane is good. White can take the corner, descend, or push on top of the 2 stones after black extends. Connecting seems to always end poorly. White is heavy, gets chased around for a long time, and black gains all over. Even if you don't know the proper choice, you know that's pretty much always the wrong one now

Author:	EdLee [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:
FootofGod wrote: Connecting seems to always end poorly. White is heavy... that's pretty much always the wrong one now If you mean the (Q6) connect in Hiro's game, it is a joseki move.

Author:	Shaddy [ Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New club member, how strong is he? Help me beat him!
If he's 1 dan, he's pretty out of practice. He could be a dan, but I kind of doubt it- he does some weird stuff that seems un-danly. If I had to guess, I'd say he was 2k to 1d, leaning toward 2k. In both your game with him and Hiro's game with him, he left unsettled groups on the board. At move 98 in his game with Hiro, R10 kills, and at move 62 in his game with you, L18 seems to kill. He also seems to play a lot of thank-you moves, and he's overly fond of that attachment joseki that's bothering you. I'll post some reviews tomorrow

Author: aurik [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:48 am ]

Post subject: Re: New club member, how strong is he? Help me beat him!

Typical:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ ----------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . X . 5 . . . . . $$ | . . 0 . 6 X 1 3 . 7 9 $$ | . . . O . . 2 4 8 . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W10 $$ ----------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . X 2 O . . . . . $$ | . . X . X X O O . O O $$ | . . 1 O . . X X X . . $$ | . . . . . a . . . . . $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

W can now tenuki, possibly after peeping at a; he has given up the corner for a low position on the top. The high extension seems a bit crowded now; with the low extension, a 4 space second-extension down the right side is sometimes played instead, but this variation is gote, as it doesn't precipitate :b12:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W10 $$ ----------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . X . O . . . . . $$ | . . X . X X O O . O O $$ | . . . O . . X X X . . $$ | . . . . . a . . . . . $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

From looking at dailyjoseki (http://dailyjoseki.com/browse) it seems the attachment is only used when W has a stone in the top-right to support his top group.

Author:	blade90 [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: New club member, how strong is he? Help me beat him!
I'm not very strong but to me it looks like Lee always turns the game into a big fight by first building a large moyo and force you to come in. And all fights end the same way: everyone destroys his own potential territory and/or kills is own groups off, while he nicely keeps track of in what direction the fight is going. The best example of this is at move 43 in Jessica's game. At least that's how it looks to me, I could be totally wrong here I see a lot of that kind of play on tygem. Maybe you can learn something there

Author:	Magicwand [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:32 am ]
Post subject:	Re: New club member, how strong is he? Help me beat him!
i can go to a new go club and claim that i am weak. i probably will play dumb moves not thinking...but that doesnt mean that i am 1 dan. you can not tell how strong your opponent is unless they reveal their true strength. i have this belief "never show your true strength unless you really need to win"

Author:	Allen [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re:
EdLee wrote: Take this as an excellent opportunity for everyone in your club to improve. We will, thanks Ed! EdLee wrote: FootofGod wrote: Connecting seems to always end poorly. White is heavy... that's pretty much always the wrong one now If you mean the (Q6) connect in Hiro's game, it is a joseki move. Yeah, Hiro mentioned that it's another joseki move, but I didn't get a chance to ask Mr. Lee or Hiro much more about it. Then, from 15 I was wondering how white could have best handled it? Like, is that a joseki variation too? Is extending with 16 best? aurik wrote: Typical: Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$W $$ ----------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . X . 5 . . . . . $$ \| . . 0 . 6 X 1 3 . 7 9 $$ \| . . . O . . 2 4 8 . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . O . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]` Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$W10 $$ ----------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . X 2 O . . . . . $$ \| . . X . X X O O . O O $$ \| . . 1 O . . X X X . . $$ \| . . . . . a . . . . . $$ \| . . . O . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]` W can now tenuki, possibly after peeping at a; he has given up the corner for a low position on the top. The high extension seems a bit crowded now; with the low extension, a 4 space second-extension down the right side is sometimes played instead, but this variation is gote, as it doesn't precipitate Click Here To Show Diagram Code `[go]$$W10 $$ ----------------------- $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . X . O . . . . . $$ \| . . X . X X O O . O O $$ \| . . . O . . X X X . . $$ \| . . . . . a . . . . . $$ \| . . W . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . 1 . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . . $$ \| . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]` From looking at dailyjoseki (http://dailyjoseki.com/browse) it seems the attachment is only used when W has a stone in the top-right to support his top group. I think this is what Hiro showed me after my game that Friday. So maybe I can punish Mr. Lee for attaching if he doesn't have a stone in that top/right corner? blade90 wrote: I'm not very strong but to me it looks like Lee always turns the game into a big fight by first building a large moyo and force you to come in. And all fights end the same way: everyone destroys his own potential territory and/or kills is own groups off, while he nicely keeps track of in what direction the fight is going. The best example of this is at move 43 in Jessica's game. At least that's how it looks to me, I could be totally wrong here I see a lot of that kind of play on tygem. Maybe you can learn something there Thanks, that could be true! Maybe I should start building a moyo first then!

Author:	Shaddy [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New club member, how strong is he? Help me beat him!

Author:	Oroth [ Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: New club member, how strong is he? Help me beat him!
Magicwand wrote: i have this belief "never show your true strength unless you really need to win" I believe they call this "hustling".

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