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Misread, bad counting?
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Author:  Jordus [ Thu May 06, 2010 9:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Misread, bad counting?
Here is a game I played today. I was black. Ended up losing by 15 points :oops:

I thought I read a way to live if I invaded top left corner, however, I messed up somewhere.

My counting showed about a 5 point difference before I invaded the top left corner, but my counting is really bad in fast games.

Anyways here it is...

a few of my moves after reviewing should be placed in the embarrassing moments in go thread :oops:

Author:  Dusk Eagle [ Thu May 06, 2010 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Misread, bad counting?


Overall, your biggest weaknesses were your opening ( :-| ) and that you played too many impulse moves without considering better alternatives. Perhaps this was due to time pressure?

Oh, and BTW, there is no possible way for you to live in the top-left corner if white plays properly. That is one of the reasons why you should have played move 13 at F18 - if you had a stone there, the corner invasion becomes easy.

Hope you can learn from this review :D. You both had your opportunities to run away with the win in this game.
Author:  Jordus [ Thu May 06, 2010 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Misread, bad counting?
Move 35 at k3 was a misclick. I actually meant to play L3. Would you consider that to close still? Or would it be ok? or would it be ok but pushing it?

Thanks for the review.
Author:  ethanb [ Thu May 06, 2010 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Misread, bad counting?
Sequence to 13 in the upper left is not even - white came out a lot better. Black should atari before making the hanging connection (which is also not very good (should be a solid connection or a descent to the second line), but not playing this atari first is, IMHO, a worse mistake.) Or rather than defending the third line stone, it's also common to connect the fourth line stone with the fifth line stone that made the atari, and sacrifice if white cuts.

Interesting idea in the lower left - white played poorly and you made the right choice of direction (reducing the moyo.) But 29 and 31 seem aji-keshi, and the 33-34 exchange isn't very good - you'd rather white didn't close up *all* the holes just yet..

77 should have been outside (L5 or so) to surround and kill white; I don't think there's any way for him to make a real capturing race there, much less one that he wins.

163? Hane on the other side and you kill it.

203: it's dead, Jim. There's not even a ko here.

EDIT: re: extension on the bottom -- K3 is better than L3, but I would prefer to make a one-space shimari from your 3-4 stone here. I like high a little better than low facing that wall, but either one should be better.

EDIT #2: meant to say "L3 is better than K3," sorry.
Author:  Dusk Eagle [ Thu May 06, 2010 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Misread, bad counting?
Well... the corner shimari is also big and it generally is considered better to enclose a 3-4 before extending. Here... I'm not completely sure :razz: . L3 also seems to me to be... on the line. I might play it, but it might also still be too close... I'm not strong enough to say, so I probably would not have commented. All I know is that K3, which allows no side extension at all so as to form any kind of base for a pincered group, is too close.

Edit:ethanb, white got a ponnuki + more thickness and you think he came out behind here? I'm weaker than you, but (and?) I feel inclined to disagree. Black got 17 points in the corner and is completely enclosed. I think white's thickness is worth more than that.
Author:  ethanb [ Thu May 06, 2010 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Misread, bad counting?
Dusk Eagle wrote:
Well... the corner shimari is also big and it generally is considered better to enclose a 3-4 before extending. Here... I'm not completely sure :razz: . L3 also seems to me to be... on the line. I might play it, but it might also still be too close... I'm not strong enough to say, so I probably would not have commented. All I know is that K3, which allows no side extension at all so as to form any kind of base for a pincered group, is too close.

Edit:ethanb, white got a ponnuki + more thickness and you think he came out behind here? I'm weaker than you, but (and?) I feel inclined to disagree. Black got 17 points in the corner and is completely enclosed. I think white's thickness is worth more than that.



Before playing the 29-34 sequence, white has a lot of holes. His ponnuki on the third line is facing the wrong direction to coordinate with his thickness on top well. I think black can invade the upper left side easily (not that he necessarily should right away).

EDIT#2: Oh, and also - I didn't exactly say white came out behind. I said he made a mistake. :) His choice of direction should have been to make a solid wall facing his thickness in the upper left. A deep and complete moyo. This would be obviously better for white than the game sequence, regardless of whether the game sequence was "bad" for him or not..

EDIT#3: Cutting at 29 isn't a good idea, but the clamp is interesting if you want to continue locally - still too small immediately though (white can continue to make a wall, which you don't really want.)
Author:  Bill Spight [ Fri May 07, 2010 9:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Misread, bad counting?
A few comments:



See moves 113, 115, 163, 203. :)
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