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Disaster!
http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7177		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  ivanzypher [ Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Disaster!
Ohhh... I thought that I would play a game tonight... I am pretty tired, I was rubbing deep heat on someone's back three times during the night and got up twice to get some water... Waited for the water filter to fill up and then was awake so couldn't get back to sleep...

OK so I'll post this, put some of my thoughts down, and then go to bed and see what others have to say :) And don't be afraid to rip me to shreds... I like constructive criticism ;)

I think (I <i>like<i> to think) that I am stronger than 14kyu, but this guy just seemed to walk all over me. I got panicked, I had no initiative and I had pretty horrible shape throughout. I certainly need to work on my shape... Learn to fix shape before playing elsewhere... He just cut me all over the place and proceeded to walk in front.

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My comments:



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Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Disaster!
8: You MUST play B3 here. It not only competes for the corner, but it pushes him toward your pincer.

10: B4. Protect the cut with a ladder, and keep struggling for the corner.

18: H4 is a compromised stone, much too close to a stronger black group. The last thing you want to do is make it heavy with H3. Either call it a light stone, and tenuki to a big point someplace else, or fight with the hane at G3.

22: Again, making yourself heavy. Abandon G2 and extend to M3.

23: Thank your opponent for this move.

24: Good move. M3 might be good too.

...lunchtime...maybe more later....
Author:  Splatted [ Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Disaster!
A few comments on the opening (without reading what Joaz has written), but bare in mind that I'm also sleep deprived and only a 5k, so I'm likely wrong.


8: I think this is bad because t allows black to strength himself while attacking you.

10:
Quote:
Should be at c5?


I think so.

12:
Quote:
White forced to escape the atari in to a bad shape.


How important was that stone? It spoils black's shape a bit, but he get's to settle himself anyway so why not trade it for something else?

14:I don't see the need to seal off the left side. You don't have any stones there so your not defending anything. If black wants to crawl along the second line then let him.
Author:  lovelove [ Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Disaster!
ivanzypher wrote:
I think (I <i>like<i> to think) that I am stronger than 14kyu, but this guy just seemed to walk all over me. I got panicked, I had no initiative and I had pretty horrible shape throughout. I certainly need to work on my shape... Learn to fix shape before playing elsewhere... He just cut me all over the place and proceeded to walk in front.

Shape? Joseki? These things are nothing you need in 14kyu. Just focus on improving your reading! Tsumegos are perfect for this. You can be more than 3~4 dan with only strong reading.

use [ i ] instead of <i> btw ^^
Author:  EdLee [ Mon Nov 12, 2012 5:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Basic shape problems.
Author:  lovelove [ Mon Nov 12, 2012 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
EdLee wrote:
Basic shape problems.

What do you mean by "basic" shape?
Author:  EdLee [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:31 am ]
Post subject: 
lovelove, Yes. http://lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic. ... 97&start=0
Author:  ivanzypher [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Disaster!
Quote:
8: You MUST play B3 here. It not only competes for the corner, but it pushes him toward your pincer.

10: B4. Protect the cut with a ladder, and keep struggling for the corner.

18: H4 is a compromised stone, much too close to a stronger black group. The last thing you want to do is make it heavy with H3. Either call it a light stone, and tenuki to a big point someplace else, or fight with the hane at G3.

22: Again, making yourself heavy. Abandon G2 and extend to M3.

23: Thank your opponent for this move.

24: Good move. M3 might be good too.


All good stuff! If you finish lunch in the next day or two, I'd love to know what you think of some more moves! I need to focus on light/heavy stones and the differences between them.

8: If I play b3, then if B pushes with D3, I could extend to C7? Is that the correct play?

Quote:
14:I don't see the need to seal off the left side. You don't have any stones there so your not defending anything. If black wants to crawl along the second line then let him.


Mmm, yes I see...

Quote:
Shape? Joseki? These things are nothing you need in 14kyu. Just focus on improving your reading! Tsumegos are perfect for this. You can be more than 3~4 dan with only strong reading.


I don't know... I don't feel like reading tsumego is only what I need. I do read lots of tsumego, but I have played very few matches. I don't seem to be able to 'play' on the board, if you know what I mean. Abstract positions, yes, but not a real game.

I think I need to study the fundamentals. Shape, when to atari, direction, connections, and fighting (yes, fighting is tsumego - it is a big part, I agree). I just don't feel like I started fights from the right footing in that game. Also, I didn't feel like I was making strong positions - the shapes I made were exploitable and cuttable.

EdLee - I have seen some of your reviews in here and you always point out the shapes - this is really helpful and makes me feel (as I am sure others have felt) that I am playing the game 'properly'. Like, I find it really difficult to 'fix shape' (e.g. defend a cutting point) after playing out a sequence, I'm like, 'but I want to tenuki, in that way it feels like I have the initiative, I have sente, when I probably actually don't'.

I was thinking of reading Kageyama, playing lots more games, and maybe having a look at Shape Up, as it has got some cracking reviews.
Author:  skydyr [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Disaster!
I think these have been touched on already, but there were a couple things that really stood out:

1) When you've got a single stone in atari, the first move to consider is pulling the stone out of atari. It may not be the correct move, but you should look at it to see if it works first.

2) When you've got a big framework surrounding potential territory, it's imperative that you don't let your opponent in. Blocking it off completely is huge. If he can send a snake in, you're often in for a world of hurt.
Author:  lovelove [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Disaster!
ivanzypher wrote:
I don't know... I don't feel like reading tsumego is only what I need. I do read lots of tsumego, but I have played very few matches. I don't seem to be able to 'play' on the board, if you know what I mean. Abstract positions, yes, but not a real game.

I think I need to study the fundamentals. Shape, when to atari, direction, connections, and fighting (yes, fighting is tsumego - it is a big part, I agree). I just don't feel like I started fights from the right footing in that game. Also, I didn't feel like I was making strong positions - the shapes I made were exploitable and cuttable.

I started to read my first non-tsumego go book about one and half month ago. Before that, I played 1063 games in Netmarble (a Korean go server) and solved twenty or more tsumego books. This is all about my go.

All the fundamentals in go are just results from strong players' strong reading. Whatever you study in go, you'll understand much better with good reading, knowing why certain situations are good or bad.

You said you solved lots of tsumego. I want to ask how much problems in what level you solved. Try to solve the tsumego below, black to play and capture four white stones inside.

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Author:  mitsun [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Disaster!
ivanzypher wrote:
I think I need to study the fundamentals. Shape, when to atari, direction, connections, and fighting (yes, fighting is tsumego - it is a big part, I agree). I just don't feel like I started fights from the right footing in that game. Also, I didn't feel like I was making strong positions - the shapes I made were exploitable and cuttable.

I have to agree with lovelove here -- the fundamental you need to work on is reading. You had plenty of positions which got cut to shreds, not because the shape was bad, but because you ignored or did not see an atari coming next move. Examples are moves {52,60,128,148,152,188,192}. Reading will improve naturally with practice and faster with tsumego. Until you get better at this, higher level concepts can be fun to study, but will not help you win games.
Author:  ivanzypher [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Disaster!
mitsun wrote:
I have to agree with lovelove here -- the fundamental you need to work on is reading. You had plenty of positions which got cut to shreds, not because the shape was bad, but because you ignored or did not see an atari coming next move. Examples are moves {52,60,128,148,152,188,192}. Reading will improve naturally with practice and faster with tsumego. Until you get better at this, higher level concepts can be fun to study, but will not help you win games.


Ok I concede defeat ;) really good point what you make about the shape not being the problem rather not correctly reading the likely responses from the opponent.

Lovelove - I would play F2. Thanks for your advice also :)

I have 1001 L&D problems and GGPFB 2&3 and get strong at tesuju which I am going to go through before I even start with attack and defence or any other book like that.

I still might read tesuji in-between. There is no harm in getting some clues before starting on the problems :)
Author:  lovelove [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Disaster!
ivanzypher wrote:
Lovelove - I would play F2.

Beeeep! Incorrect...

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Solution Below

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Author:  ivanzypher [ Tue Nov 13, 2012 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Disaster!
That was a tricky one for a 14 kyu lol

Pretty answer!
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