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Did not attack well enough
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Author:  otenki [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Did not attack well enough
Hey guys,

So usualy if I don't win by more than 10 points I consider it me playing bad because endgame is something that I'm so bad at anyway and would like to avoid if possible.

Ok so I think the biggest mistakes I made in this game was from not taking enough profit while chasing a group.
I'm talking about chasing the white top group.

I think the biggest problem was that I had faults in my own shapes which made it hard for me to attack severly.
I'm black btw.

Thanks,
Otenki
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Did not attack well enough
The biggest problem, IMHO, was move 13. With move 12, he walks into the hane at the head of two stones, and you let him split your stones. This corner then became his largest territory.

This is joseki:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . 2 . . . |
$$ . 3 . , . . . |
$$ . . . 1 4 . . |
$$ . . . . 5 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$-------------[/go]

This is letting you hane at the head of two stones - a good move for you:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . 2 . . . |
$$ . 3 . 5 6 . . |
$$ . . . 1 4 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$-------------[/go]

Note that he cannot crosscut:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . 2 4 . |
$$ . . . X 1 3 . |
$$ . O . O X . . |
$$ . . . O X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$-------------[/go]
Author:  EdLee [ Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
otenki wrote:
I think the biggest problem was that I had faults in my own shapes...
Yes.
Author:  schawipp [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Did not attack well enough
From move 106 on (till move 144), a W move on S15 looks problematic. Even if S could avoid the capture of the upper right corner, the sequence S15-S14, R14-T15, Q15-T16, R15-S13 seems to reduce b by 10 points, and w keeps sente. Or is that still too small and can be abandoned? Or did I just miss something?!
Author:  otenki [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Did not attack well enough
To all 3: Thanks !!!

@Joaz Banbeck: wow that I can read such a simple shape wrong. I thought it was bad shape because it could be cut but of course it cannot. Thanks for pointing it out.

@EdLee:
move 15: Why is var 1 better then my original idea, it can be cut aswell right ?
move 39: Indeed I don't know anymore why I played it ... bad!
move 56: I need to look more into my shapes indeed because this is a disaster :(

@schawipp: I think you are missing the obvious(correct me if i'm wrong though): white can connect with R14.
Author:  EdLee [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
otenki, I'm not sure if :b15: at F4 works -- you need to read the fight -- but it seems better than your broken shape.
A cut is different from a broken shape: in a cut, B and W are mutually separated.
In your broken shape, W stays in one piece, but B is sliced into two. Do you see the difference?
For beginners.
_____ Left: A cut. ______________ Right: A broken shape for :black::
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . .
$$ . . X X O . . . . X X O . . . .
$$ . . . O X X . . . . . O X X . .
$$ . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . .
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]
Author:  Joaz Banbeck [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Did not attack well enough
otenki wrote:
To all 3: Thanks !!!

@Joaz Banbeck: wow that I can read such a simple shape wrong. I thought it was bad shape because it could be cut but of course it cannot. Thanks for pointing it out...


FWIW, It would probably still be the proper move even if it could be cut. :rambo:
Author:  otenki [ Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Did not attack well enough
Ahaa it all making sense now, thanks for making me another 1/500 th or so of a stone stronger ;-)

Otenki
Author:  schawipp [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Did not attack well enough
otenki wrote:
[...]
@schawipp: I think you are missing the obvious(correct me if i'm wrong though): white can connect with R14.


I am not sure if we are thinking of the same move. If at move 106, white played R14, black would answer S15, and there is no connection (black's lower side would be a bit reduced, though). More difficult for black would be, if W played S15. Black cannot answer R14, since W on T17 would then capture the corner.

The variation would be more or less forced as follows:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc w 7 connects on R15
$$-------------
$$ . . . . O O X . |
$$ . . . O . O X . |
$$ O O . O O X X . |
$$ . . X X X O O 6 |
$$ O . . . 5 X 1 4 |
$$ . X O . O 3 2 . |
$$ X . X . O X 8 . |
$$ . . . . O X . . |
$$ O . O . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . |[/go]


S has to protect with 8, otherwise W can play there and get a ko for the whole corner (edit: it would be a clean kill, since w could stretch to S12, atari two B stones and then play T12). B is reduced by about 10 points and W keeps sente. S could avoid that by playing R14 in gote, which actually happened in move 145. I was just wondering, why W did not play that sequence during move 106-144 (10 points in sente could already have made the difference...).
Author:  otenki [ Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Did not attack well enough
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$-------------
$$ . . . . O O X . |
$$ . . . O . O X . |
$$ O O . O O X X 3 |
$$ . . X X X O O . |
$$ O . . . . X 1 . |
$$ . X O . O 2 . .|
$$ X . X . O X . . |
$$ . . . . O X . . |
$$ O . O . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . |[/go]


I did not read this before.

Thanks for pointing this out, I guess my oponent and me did not check closely enough to notice there was aji in the top corner.

Cheers,
Otenki
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