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Probably a stupid question
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Author:  Canarmane [ Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Probably a stupid question
I'm currently playing games against Aya, and after the game ends it does a sort of 'post-game analysis' where it shows territory, dead stones, unclaimed territory, etc.

What are stones that have dots on them? Does it mean they are neither dead not claiming territory? In the example board I've attached, all stones with the circles I'm referring to have circles belonging to the opposing color, but they aren't the clear "X"s either.

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Author:  jts [ Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Probably a stupid question
I suspect the circles as opposed to X's means something like "probably dead" or "dead but may have some aji". E.g., after B plays 5-14, W needs to play 2-18, or else there will be trouble. (The dotted white stones are just dead, but maybe aya is still pining after them.)

There are no stupid questions!
Author:  schawipp [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Probably a stupid question
jts wrote:
I suspect the circles as opposed to X's means something like "probably dead" or "dead but may have some aji". E.g., after B plays 5-14, W needs to play 2-18, or else there will be trouble. (The dotted white stones are just dead, but maybe aya is still pining after them.)

There are no stupid questions!


You mean after B played 6-14, W must answer in the corner, otherwise another B move on 5-18 would kill (interesting position BTW). W should rather answer on 4-17, since 2-18 looks like self-atari ;-)
Author:  EdLee [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:11 am ]
Post subject: 
schawipp wrote:
W should rather answer on 4-17...
Maybe W answering at 5-18 is slightly better, because after that, any B move in that corner will be self-atari for B.
Author:  jts [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Probably a stupid question
schawipp wrote:
jts wrote:
I suspect the circles as opposed to X's means something like "probably dead" or "dead but may have some aji". E.g., after B plays 5-14, W needs to play 2-18, or else there will be trouble. (The dotted white stones are just dead, but maybe aya is still pining after them.)

There are no stupid questions!


You mean after B played 6-14, W must answer in the corner, otherwise another B move on 5-18 would kill (interesting position BTW). W should rather answer on 4-17, since 2-18 looks like self-atari ;-)

Yeah, clearly the upside-down number-number grid had me reeling... I meant 6-14 and 5-18. I don't think 4-17 vs 5-18 actually makes a difference, as it's one ko threat in either case, but I agree with Ed that 5-18 is more satisfying. :)

After posting this it occurred to me that the dots might be dead and the X's might be "you need to add a move eventually". That would credit Aya with understanding the Lower Right. But Canarmane seemed fairly confident that X was dead.
Author:  gowan [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Probably a stupid question
This is slightly off-topic but the 19-19 point in the upper right is not exactly a neutral point. When it is occupied by a stone Black and White will have to defend the cuts. It won't change the score, though.
Author:  daal [ Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Probably a stupid question
gowan wrote:
This is slightly off-topic but the 19-19 point in the upper right is not exactly a neutral point. When it is occupied by a stone Black and White will have to defend the cuts. It won't change the score, though.

I'd say it's neutral because neither can play it without first defending the cut. After one player does so, so does the other, and the point still is neutral. ;-)
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