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schawipps messy games http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8650 |
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Author: | schawipp [ Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:23 am ] |
Post subject: | schawipps messy games |
I played the following game on the wbaduk server yesterday evening (and used the method desribed in http://lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8637 to extract the SGF...). As often on wbaduk, I tend to get involved in messy fights, and there, even 11k players handle them quite solidly. In this game, I misread a Ko in an early fight; by patching the remaining groups I got significantly behind. Later, I succeeded to establish a big invasion into the black san ren sei area, however it did not fully compensate my losses before. I added some questions and remarks and would appreciate any comments and suggestions for improvement! |
Author: | Shinkenjoe [ Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:38 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: schawipps messy games |
Some direction of play thoughts. I'm just a few stones stronger than you, so just consider what I'm saying. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Author: | leichtloeslich [ Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:42 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: schawipps messy games |
A few ideas: You should take these with a bit of scepticism, though, as my main strength is reading and I haven't done much of that, here. |
Author: | schawipp [ Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:09 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: schawipps messy games |
Thank you both for your thorough analysis with many good ideas! I see as general trend that I sometimes switch into standby-mode and play unnecessary local moves while being more whole-board alert during other game situations. @leichtloeslich: Regarding your comment on move 195, I still feel a bit uneasy with blocking on a3, since there are some more weaknesses around: On the other hand, blocking on b3 costs 2 extra points in gote, while the best variation (If I did not missed another relevant one...?) after blocking on a3 costs 6 points but ends with sente for w, which is probably more important. |
Author: | leichtloeslich [ Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:44 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: schawipps messy games |
Quote: I still feel a bit uneasy with blocking on a3, since there are some more weaknesses around yeah, I actually saw the clamp and suspected there was trouble, but that was seconds (either before or) after posting and I was too lazy to change the sgf again. So I just posted my "didn't read lol"-disclaimer. |
Author: | schawipp [ Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:39 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: schawipps messy games |
Here is another game from WBADUK which I lost by 1.5 pts (for some reason, the server showed only 0.5 pts but that's not important). There was some mutual struggeling of weak groups but no real major accident happened. I am sure I chosed the wrong direction a number of times in fuseki, also I suspect that more points could be gained in endgame. Thus, I would appreciate any feedback! |
Author: | Shinkenjoe [ Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:46 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: schawipps messy games |
Some 4kyu Kgs comments: ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Some other comments later |
Author: | Shinkenjoe [ Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:51 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: schawipps messy games |
![]() ![]() I see two ways, either you play your leaning move and follow with something like L7 or M7 that makes use of the leaning, or you just jump once more, which also threatens his side sometime, but helps your group more. The leaning move alone does too less for your weak group Also your tenuki should locally be on the third line. now it looks like as you'd gone downwards against a kick, but you sur would want to go upwards. Locally also a possible answer to be thought at is O14. First you jump out, second If he invades in the corner you get liberties in a possible semeai. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() 108: You're sure youre connected with your group? I maybe would have tenukid. I'm curious for all the other reviews. ![]() |
Author: | schawipp [ Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:03 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: schawipps messy games |
Thank you for all your interesting comments! I've put your suggestions together with some more variations from me into the SGF: I included also your suggestion after the possible cut at N9 (move 55). It does not look bad at all, but maybe a bit over-optimistic ![]() |
Author: | schawipp [ Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:32 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: schawipps messy games |
On wbaduk, my rank currently seems to level off at around 12k. As a general trend I recognize that I start too many groups and am too optimistic about getting them all settled. I won the attached game only luckily, as there were several situations where one of my groups was at the rim of dying. A stronger opponent should have killed at least my lower right corner if not even more. At the end, black had only one big connected group (with nice labyrinth-like shape... ![]() Any comments on the game are highly appreciated. I would like to keep this thread as my (non-regularly updated) study journal: Since there should be no study journal without a goal, I would like to set my personal next goal to becoming sdk on wbaduk (which seems more or less equivalent to breaking the 5k barrier on KGS if I understood the rank comparison tables correctly...). |
Author: | schawipp [ Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:38 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: schawipps messy games |
Up to now, I was practising mainly tsumego and playing games, while the outcome of Fuseki seems somewhat of a mystery for me. Thus, I obtained "Opening theory made easy" from Otake and "Making good shape" from Zeijst/Bozulich and am now trying to get something out of it. From the two attached games (a loss and a win; both on wbaduk today) you can see that I'm still struggeling with overall strategy and direction of play. Any comments or hints for improvement are greatly appreciated. Edit: Removed the names of the opponents |
Author: | schawipp [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:04 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: schawipps messy games |
Yesterday I played a game, where I got somehow tricked very quickly (it was a bit late in the evening, though). After I've played an "ideal" extension, my opponent entered it with e "knee-hit" and created complications (I was helping with some overaggresive moves...). Any comments are highly appreciated ![]() |
Author: | EdLee [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:56 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Author: | schawipp [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:04 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: schawipps messy games |
Thank you EdLee for looking at this strange game and for your additional variations. However I am not yet sure, how I would play the next time if that situation repeats ... My favorite variation would be to push on the third line in move 16 (and let black proceed on the 2nd line, if he wants...). This seems to have the advantage that white keeps fully connected while obtaining a big influence zone. Are there any disadvantages here? In your variations, you seem to suggest to abandon O3/O4 and build a strong wall towards upper left instead. In total, black would get up to 30 secure points in lower right corner. On the other hand, white would get a quite large "potential", which is still invadeable though. I am not sure, how I would judge that. If e. g. the same sequence would be repeated at upper right, black would have about 70 points at right side which is already almost enough to win ![]() Maybe my thinking is still too "kyuish" here (= too much focused on "solid cash"?). What variation would you prefer - or is it a matter of style? ![]() |
Author: | EdLee [ Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:08 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Hi schawipp, just the reference variation at ![]() schawipp wrote: to abandon O3/O4 and build a strong wall towards upper left instead. Yes. If B lets W get that result, W is super happy.
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Author: | schawipp [ Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:37 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: schawipps messy games |
Today, I played this game on KGS. In the opening, I felt unsure about the correct direction. Later we had some minor fights in middle game, however my opponent resolved these situations by small sacrifices and finally kept a close lead of 1.5 Pts. I think the game was decided in endgame, where my opponent set more priority in playing sente moves, while I stumbled across with some stupid inaccurate moves. Anyway, thank you in advance for comments and criticism! |
Author: | Unusedname [ Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:42 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: schawipps messy games |
My thoughts. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Author: | EdLee [ Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:29 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Unusedname wrote: ![]() ![]() If B connects, then the entire B group is heavy. If B tenukis, then W cuts off o3, and B is left with 3 stupid stones in the center, while W gets both the right side and the bottom. After ![]() but not both — that's too good for W. I wonder if ![]() Maybe ![]() Yes, if W ataris at N3, then B can counter atari at M3, and give up the lone o3 stone — B keeps the outside and M3. But if W peeps M3 and B tenukis, that's a big loss for B. Instead of ![]() B is left with a heavy group. |
Author: | Uberdude [ Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:49 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: schawipps messy games |
31 seems sort of ok to me, like Ed said peep rather than cut to attack everything could be white's continuation if tenuki. I would also point out that if white didn't want black to play there he could have m3 peeped instead of p2. After black connect white could m2 and lose a bit in the corner when black pushes or jumps, or come back to p2 and black could play m2 to stabilise his group but it's even smaller than m3 (and less follow up at g4). If black doesn't like white blocking at p2 after peep-connect then black could push there immediately after peep and white can choose between cutting and giving black the corner or just blocking. Black feels a bit strange to me in the game result, but you got the lower left corner and still have your Chinese side so maybe it's ok. I wonder about jump out and cap in response to white's 2 space pincer (jump isn't normally good with that pincer but I'm trying to make good use of n5 thickness). |
Author: | schawipp [ Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:44 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: schawipps messy games |
Thank you all for the excellent feedback and discussion! Sometimes someone has to say obvious things before thinking blockades go away ![]() The decision for move ![]() Unusedname wrote: ![]() Yeah, I played that move merely by a kind of "shape habit" without really thinking about the consequences. The same holds for move ![]() EdLee wrote: After ![]() Good point. However even the right side alone became quite big (~35 pts in the end) with the W stones Q10 and P14 already in place. Therefore I think there might be already a problem in the opening before. Move ![]() ![]() ![]() BTW I tried to count the score in between only to find out that it was very close. This raised my stress level and then game-deciding moves like 157 happened... ![]() |
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