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How to play triple approach of 4-4 point
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Author:  Shawn Ligocki [ Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:43 am ]
Post subject:  How to play triple approach of 4-4 point
I just played a game last night where several things happened that I realized I don't know how to deal with. I'd be grateful for any advice. Thanks!

I am White:


Here are places I'm especially interested in several things that happened in the early game:
1) How should I deal with the sequence starting at Black 7-13? Specifically Black tenukied from my approach to approach another corner. I didn't want him to take control so I double approached, and he double approached mine. I didn't want to be enclosed so I jumped out diagonally and Black let me enclose him with a triple approach. I felt like this was a good result for me giving me a lot of influence.
2) When Black ignored my triple approach should I do something? After playing I looked up the triple approach on SL and saw that I could have killed their corner with the S16 slide. It seems like this might be overconcentrated, but I suppose it is a big corner and lots of influence?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm6 Triple approach
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


3) Was White 18 a bad play? What would be a better way to use the influence from my enclosure?
4) How could I respond to Black 19? I can't tell if my response was good or bad. In the end that jump made the majority of my territory, but that could be dumb luck?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13 Black's trickly play 19 (Reduction?)
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 . . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . 6 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


5) Is White 28 a bad move? If not, what would have been a good follow-up White 30 move? (Clearly I shouldn't have tenukied there.)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Bad time to tenuki.
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 8 7 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 0 , . . . . . , . . 4 3 1 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Any other comments greatly welcomed!

This is my first Game Analysis post. Thanks for any help you can give me!

Attachments:
serkann.sgf [9.48 KiB]
Downloaded 500 times
Author:  skydyr [ Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to play triple approach of 4-4 point
Responses to your questions, at least:

1 Regarding black 7, pincer. This helps your approach stone out AND hurts his.

2 You don't have to worry about killing the corner yet. It's a bit gote, and if black saves it, you should be thrilled for all the power you can build beating up on it with sente moves.

3 Nothing wrong with the standard joseki here, playing low. It gives better scope for action to kill the UR corner later.

4 19 is kind of a weird move. Maybe attach underneath or butt into him from the nearby stone. You're looking to make him heavy, then strengthen the connection of the top group so you can concentrate on attacking.

5 W28 is fine. Follow up by cutting at N13, which also acts as a ladder breaker. Black is left with somewhat painful shape, and needs to follow up to have his stones mean anything.
Author:  judicata [ Thu Feb 20, 2014 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to play triple approach of 4-4 point
Shawn Ligocki wrote:

3) Was White 18 a bad play? What would be a better way to use the influence from my enclosure?
4) How could I respond to Black 19? I can't tell if my response was good or bad. In the end that jump made the majority of my territory, but that could be dumb luck?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm13 Black's trickly play 19 (Reduction?)
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 . . . X . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . 6 a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]



Regarding white 18, this move is generally considered a mistake. I've marked the typical joseki moves 'a' and 'b' in the diagram above. I like your decision to play high here, because I think it works well with your stones at P15 and R14. But the move should be at 'b.' (The lower response at 'a' would also be fine.)
Author:  Bill Spight [ Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: How to play triple approach of 4-4 point
You played well until your oversight. :)
Author:  Shawn Ligocki [ Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: How to play triple approach of 4-4 point
Thanks all of you for the comments. I can see now that the triple approach was good, but I can't ignore it for too long as my opponent builds up a wall to attack it with.
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