Life In 19x19 :: Korean opinion: EGC system

whomever thought of that rediculous idea must be shot!

I think this is a bit closer to how the Koreans and Japanese limit foreign baseball players than it is to what Magicwand suggests.

I still don't think it's necessary to separate the players though.

Korean baseball team won against USA and Cuba. their limitation is not because other players are too strong.
we dont want korean baseball team to have 0 korean player. that is the reason for the limitation.

Magicwand wrote:

This is exactly my point. They do not want to have 0 Europeans in the top of their field. I'm glad we're agreeing.

can you define Europeans?
Korean can be European but European can not be Korean.
if you do not have korean blood you can not claim yourself as a korean.
but even if i am korean i can be European. i am sure you know what i mean.

Magicwand wrote:

I'm curious: can somebody who does not have korean blood become a citizen in Korea? If yes, what will he called then? (apparently not korean but something else)

...
i have see cases where they were granted korean citizenship (female 9d pro and her husband)
but koreans will not consider them as koreans. most koreans are too proud of their pure blood concept. (i certainly dont agree)

I don't really understand the fuss, but I'm not familiar with all the details either. I believe there has been some talk about how to arrange the closed european championsip to determine the best european player (= citizen in an european country, no matter which race or ethnic background). There have always been both open and closed championships in various sports, and this is no different. When my golf club arranges the club championship only club members can play. Nobody complains and nobody thinks that has anything to do with race or anything else. It just happens to be the club championship, period.

Assuming that the closed and the open tournaments are not overlapping each other I don't see a problem either, but I believe some proposals involve separating the two tournaments but running them simultaneously, so that the strongest European players and the strongest non-European players would not play each other very often in the EGC.

To speak from experience, my wife is Korean, and....

Kirby wrote:

To speak from experience, my wife is Korean, and....

wow..that is intresting to know.
i guess if i visit you i can expect authentic korean dish??
you will get plenty of teaching game from me with that dish

Kirby wrote:

However, I think that, while it may be hard to understand some aspects of a culture, it is not good to associate it with being "right" or "wrong". As you experience and live in a culture, you can come to understand it better. The only thing that you can really say is that the culture is simply different.

Regarding some issues, the thought process is very different between, for example, America and Korea. That doesn't make either way of thought right or wrong. It is very difficult to isolate oneself from any bias and to be purely objective.

I do agree with you about not associate it with "right" or "wrong", but this does not mean you have to accept other peoples views. I am who I am, and believe me I will fight for what I believe in.

Kirby wrote:

The solution to this is to broaden your experiences and communication with cultures that are different than your own. After that, you can come to a better understanding of how and why things are the way they are.

Being much less nice than you I can tell you that any amount of understanding won't change the fact that people with some views really belongs in an early grave. :twisted:

Sure, you could expect that...
It depends on my mood, but my favorites are 양념치킨, 만두, and 김치찌개. Maybe you can submit your order before you come, and she can make it

Author:	breakfast [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:27 am ]
Post subject:	Korean opinion: EGC system
From: Sang-Dae Hahn Adviser, KABA International affairs About the idea of Catalin Taranu (and others) of creating the separated event for top Europeans (so they will not meet any Koreans) I am startled to hear that such a concept has been considered. If it is actually carried out then it would be even worse. This idea goes against the spirit of what Baduk is. Baduk is a game of mutual respect and appreciation. Baduk has been promoting friendship and mutual understanding between Europe and Asian countries for a long time. It is also special because it crosses all boundaries of race and language. Denying players the opportunity to play based on race is not only discriminatory, but also highly anti-competitive. There are also a great many problems with determining the boundaries of such a rule. Can Taranu himself play, as he is officially a professional representing Nihon-Kiin? If Asian Baduk associations had similar ideas to the Europeans that are being proposed, it would be worth noting that Taranu would not have been able to become a professional player at all. I am sure that he should consider allowances made for his sake in the past and reflect carefully on his current standpoint. Having Asian guests play in the second division is unfair and absurd, both on the visiting players and also on the Europeans who have to contend with players whose strength is well above the limit of the division. The chance to play against strong players is meant to be a joy and an experience. It is fair that they could only win open championship while you or Taranu wins the European championship. I am sure that many European players relish the challenge of strong opponents coming to compete. It is also unfair to deny them this opportunity. When I had dinner with my students who participated in the last EGC, quite often they launched into laughter, especially about the European player’s habits, particulars and their personality. I am also certain that it was an experience that they will never forget. The excitement from the meeting European Baduk players and getting to know them through the EGC has left them with a lasting impression. They told me that they will study English harder to make better communications with Europeans in the future. They have already become pro-Europeans through cross-cultural experience. Are they going to stop Koreans experiencing it from now on? Thank you for informing me this. I hope European players wouldn’t make such a non sense

Author:	Magicwand [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Korean opinion: EGC system
i dont think that above opinion is restricted to koreans. it's like a basketball game restricting black players because they are better than white people. it's like a golf tornament restricting Tiger Woods becasue he is too good. whomever thought of that rediculous idea must be shot!

Author:	Solomon [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Korean opinion: EGC system
Magicwand wrote: whomever thought of that rediculous idea must be shot! I think you're jumping the gun a bit there.

Author:	oren [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Korean opinion: EGC system
I think this is a bit closer to how the Koreans and Japanese limit foreign baseball players than it is to what Magicwand suggests. I still don't think it's necessary to separate the players though.

Author:	Magicwand [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Korean opinion: EGC system
oren wrote: I think this is a bit closer to how the Koreans and Japanese limit foreign baseball players than it is to what Magicwand suggests. I still don't think it's necessary to separate the players though. Korean baseball team won against USA and Cuba. their limitation is not because other players are too strong. we dont want korean baseball team to have 0 korean player. that is the reason for the limitation.

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Korean opinion: EGC system http://prod.lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=757	Page 1 of 4

Author:	oren [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Korean opinion: EGC system
Magicwand wrote: Korean baseball team won against USA and Cuba. their limitation is not because other players are too strong. we dont want korean baseball team to have 0 korean player. that is the reason for the limitation. This is exactly my point. They do not want to have 0 Europeans in the top of their field. I'm glad we're agreeing.

Author:	Magicwand [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Korean opinion: EGC system
oren wrote: Magicwand wrote: Korean baseball team won against USA and Cuba. their limitation is not because other players are too strong. we dont want korean baseball team to have 0 korean player. that is the reason for the limitation. This is exactly my point. They do not want to have 0 Europeans in the top of their field. I'm glad we're agreeing. can you define Europeans? Korean can be European but European can not be Korean. if you do not have korean blood you can not claim yourself as a korean. but even if i am korean i can be European. i am sure you know what i mean.

Author:	oren [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Korean opinion: EGC system
Magicwand wrote: can you define Europeans? Korean can be European but European can not be Korean. if you do not have korean blood you can not claim yourself as a korean. but even if i am korean i can be European. i am sure you know what i mean. Yes, I am only talking about country of current residence or citizenship. I am not talking about race. Baseball is the same way.

Author:	tj86430 [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Korean opinion: EGC system
Magicwand wrote: can you define Europeans? Korean can be European but European can not be Korean. if you do not have korean blood you can not claim yourself as a korean. but even if i am korean i can be European. i am sure you know what i mean. I'm curious: can somebody who does not have korean blood become a citizen in Korea? If yes, what will he called then? (apparently not korean but something else)

Author:	Magicwand [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Korean opinion: EGC system
tj86430 wrote: Magicwand wrote: can you define Europeans? Korean can be European but European can not be Korean. if you do not have korean blood you can not claim yourself as a korean. but even if i am korean i can be European. i am sure you know what i mean. I'm curious: can somebody who does not have korean blood become a citizen in Korea? If yes, what will he called then? (apparently not korean but something else) i have see cases where they were granted korean citizenship (female 9d pro and her husband) but koreans will not consider them as koreans. most koreans are too proud of their pure blood concept. (i certainly dont agree)

Author:	Harleqin [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Korean opinion: EGC system
I believe that it would be worthwhile to point out to them that the intent of "somehow" separating the players is not to give the asian players some disadvantage, but to give meaning to the "closed" title. There is no racism or similar discrimination involved; and I find it very important that no one is under such an impression.

Author:	tj86430 [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Korean opinion: EGC system
I don't really understand the fuss, but I'm not familiar with all the details either. I believe there has been some talk about how to arrange the closed european championsip to determine the best european player (= citizen in an european country, no matter which race or ethnic background). There have always been both open and closed championships in various sports, and this is no different. When my golf club arranges the club championship only club members can play. Nobody complains and nobody thinks that has anything to do with race or anything else. It just happens to be the club championship, period.

Author:	Kirby [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Korean opinion: EGC system
Magicwand wrote: ... i have see cases where they were granted korean citizenship (female 9d pro and her husband) but koreans will not consider them as koreans. most koreans are too proud of their pure blood concept. (i certainly dont agree) To speak from experience, my wife is Korean, and it was a little bit difficult at first with her parents. However, I think that, while it may be hard to understand some aspects of a culture, it is not good to associate it with being "right" or "wrong". As you experience and live in a culture, you can come to understand it better. The only thing that you can really say is that the culture is simply different. Regarding some issues, the thought process is very different between, for example, America and Korea. That doesn't make either way of thought right or wrong. It is very difficult to isolate oneself from any bias and to be purely objective. The solution to this is to broaden your experiences and communication with cultures that are different than your own. After that, you can come to a better understanding of how and why things are the way they are.

Author:	Sverre [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Korean opinion: EGC system
tj86430 wrote: I don't really understand the fuss, but I'm not familiar with all the details either. I believe there has been some talk about how to arrange the closed european championsip to determine the best european player (= citizen in an european country, no matter which race or ethnic background). There have always been both open and closed championships in various sports, and this is no different. When my golf club arranges the club championship only club members can play. Nobody complains and nobody thinks that has anything to do with race or anything else. It just happens to be the club championship, period. Assuming that the closed and the open tournaments are not overlapping each other I don't see a problem either, but I believe some proposals involve separating the two tournaments but running them simultaneously, so that the strongest European players and the strongest non-European players would not play each other very often in the EGC.

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Author:	tj86430 [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Korean opinion: EGC system
Sverre wrote: Assuming that the closed and the open tournaments are not overlapping each other I don't see a problem either, but I believe some proposals involve separating the two tournaments but running them simultaneously, so that the strongest European players and the strongest non-European players would not play each other very often in the EGC. That might be a stupid thing to do, but it would still have nothing to do with race or discrimination.

Author:	Magicwand [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Korean opinion: EGC system
Kirby wrote: To speak from experience, my wife is Korean, and.... wow..that is intresting to know. i guess if i visit you i can expect authentic korean dish?? you will get plenty of teaching game from me with that dish

Author:	Kirby [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Korean opinion: EGC system
Magicwand wrote: Kirby wrote: To speak from experience, my wife is Korean, and.... wow..that is intresting to know. i guess if i visit you i can expect authentic korean dish?? you will get plenty of teaching game from me with that dish Sure, you could expect that... It depends on my mood, but my favorites are 양념치킨, 만두, and 김치찌개. Maybe you can submit your order before you come, and she can make it

Author:	Kirby [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Korean opinion: EGC system
Helel wrote: Kirby wrote: However, I think that, while it may be hard to understand some aspects of a culture, it is not good to associate it with being "right" or "wrong". As you experience and live in a culture, you can come to understand it better. The only thing that you can really say is that the culture is simply different. Regarding some issues, the thought process is very different between, for example, America and Korea. That doesn't make either way of thought right or wrong. It is very difficult to isolate oneself from any bias and to be purely objective. I do agree with you about not associate it with "right" or "wrong", but this does not mean you have to accept other peoples views. I am who I am, and believe me I will fight for what I believe in. Kirby wrote: The solution to this is to broaden your experiences and communication with cultures that are different than your own. After that, you can come to a better understanding of how and why things are the way they are. Being much less nice than you I can tell you that any amount of understanding won't change the fact that people with some views really belongs in an early grave. I agree with your first point to some degree. When there is a conflict, to make a resolution, one side has to adjust. The adjustment could come from either direction. I'm not sure if I'd go as extreme as agreeing with your second point

Author:	Magicwand [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Korean opinion: EGC system
Kirby wrote: Sure, you could expect that... It depends on my mood, but my favorites are 양념치킨, 만두, and 김치찌개. Maybe you can submit your order before you come, and she can make it same goes for you. if you happens to visit Savannah GA.

Author:	karaklis [ Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Korean opinion: EGC system
I don't understand what the problem is. It's only an amateur championship and not a matter of obtaining some country's citizenship. I've never been on the EGC yet, but in 2012 I plan to attend it, and I hope and expect to play with people from all over the world. It's actually one of the main reasons why I would want to attend it. Why the %*!$ do they want to spoil the party? Ok, I am biased, but is just makes me angry.